Here's the deal.....as I see it.....at this moment

[sirs]

Still a long ways until the Election, and anything can happen.  That said, here's my 2 cents following the Palin Pick

Those that had no intention of voting for McCain or are of the Obama Kool-aide swooning corp, the pick means nothing to them, and you'll ususally find them tripping all over themselves into telling the rest of us how fatally it shot his Presidential chances.  In other words, their POV is so biased, we can pretty much ignore such proclamations

Those who had every intention of voting for McCain, and not for Obama, McCain could have chosen Lassie, and they'd still have voted for him

Now, for those who were the real true fence sitters, we have 3 sets
1) Leaning towards Obama, but open to McCain - right here we had Miss Cynthia, steadfast in her support of Obama, now seriously having 2nd thoughts, following the Palin pick.  Perhaps even more persuaded, once she grasps McCain's plans for reforming Education

status: Doesn't bode well for Obama

2) Those conservatives that really didn't care for McCain, and were considering sitting this election out. - again right here, you have Bt, seriously now considering voting for McCain, due specifically to the Palin pick.  Not in the bag, but........

status: doesn't bode well for Obama

3) True Fence sitters, who care little for either party.  Who to vote for?, the lesser of the 2 evils?, 3rd party?, or sit it out?  I'd very much like to see both Prince's and Fatman's current levels of voting interest now following the Palin pick.  If what I've heard, both at work and those I've heard on the radio, again......

status: doesn't bode well for Obama


Feel free to add any other subgroups


Point being, the notion that this pick "fatally shot McCain's chances" is about 180degrees out of cinc with reality.  Then again, you have to consider the source(s).  The fact that pick alone LITERALLY took ALL the wind out of Obama's speech is testament to that.  It was a brilliant pick, and those that want to harp on her supposed lack of experience, need only look at the top of their ticket.  Which is true also, that McCain can't use a sledgehammer to point out Obama's gross lack of experience to run the country.  Actually, Biden & Hillary already did that for him, during the primaries.  But VP is NOT President.  VP is literally an understudy, and given Palin's substantially more executive experience than the Democrats' FRONT runner, again doesn't bode well for Obama

[Kramer]

Palin was a great pick and will put McCain in the White House


I can't wait for them to be elected - It will be a great day in histroy


I will proudly vote for Palin to be our first POTUS when her time comes due

[Brassmask]

There's a lot going on.

Personally, I think a lot of this drip, drip, drip that is coming out about Palin is going to wind up hurting the GOP with their very own base not to mention with moderates who don't like the image that is slowly and unfortunately forming of Palin and her family.

More and more her image is not forming up as a conservative ideologue who supports the second amendment, supports life from conception and believes that spending is out of control.

Sadly, what's forming is that of a family drawn from any episode of Jerry Springer.  What it will be interesting to find out is if Jerry Springer watchers are also the type to slide off the couch and go down and get registered to vote.

[sirs]

Personally, I think a lot of this drip, drip, drip that is coming out about Palin is going to wind up hurting the GOP with their very own base not to mention with moderates who don't like the image that is slowly and unfortunately forming of Palin and her family.  More and more her image is not forming up as a conservative ideologue who supports the second amendment, supports life from conception and believes that spending is out of control.  Sadly, what's forming is that of a family drawn from any episode of Jerry Springer.  What it will be interesting to find out is if Jerry Springer watchers are also the type to slide off the couch and go down and get registered to vote.

<<Those that had no intention of voting for McCain or are of the Obama Kool-aide swooning corp, the pick means nothing to them, and you'll ususally find them tripping all over themselves into telling the rest of us how fatally it shot his Presidential chances.  In other words, their POV is so biased, we can pretty much ignore such proclamations>>.....read ; Jerry Springer reference

[Michael Tee]

Personally, I believe McCain left himself wide open to charges of hypocrisy by (a) harping on "inexperience" and then (b) passing over numerous "experienced" candidates to pick Palin.  His counterargument to that is the "understudy" argument, she'll have time to learn on the job.  To me, that's a totally bogus argument since there is no way that McCain can guarantee the American people that he'll outlast the "training period" (the length of which we have no idea - - presumably, if experience is so all-important, it can't be picked up in three months or six months on the job) and so that argument is just not believable.  More likely is that experience or the lack thereof is NBD and McCain was lying when he claimed it was.

Now that is how I see it.  It's a POV that I believe CAN be sold to the American people, but how much of an impression will it make?  I think that there's a pretty broad tolerance for hypocrisy in Presidential campaigns.  It seems to be generally accepted that candidates will say anything, promise anything to get elected, and most people on both sides are pretty tolerant of the BS.  If they like the guy, they'll vote for him anyway and if they don't, they won't.  So if McCain is still, at this point, going to invest a lot of advertising in his "straight talk" bullshit, then I think some ads capitalizing on his hypocrisy ought to be kept in readiness, utilizing this and other angles, but the Palin nomination as evidence of hypocrisy should not become the mainstay of the Obama campaign.

OTOH, I see a kind of "Beverly Hillbillies" aspect to the Palin nomination, already evidenced by her own Troopergate scandal, the teenage pregnant daughter (can't even raise her own kids not to get pregnant, teamed up with McCain, the lying cheating scumbag) this is not really a "family values" ticket that the conservative Christians should be getting behind.  They want candidates who not only talk the talk but walk the walk.  Couples like Obama and Michelle, a refreshing contrast to the whole sordid Republican ticket.  Obama has to play to the weaknesses of these two jokers, at the same time intensifying opposition research on Palin and mercilessly excoriating the record of the Bush administration.

I think Obama even at this point ought to be way out ahead, Palin or no Palin.  I think only racism is holding him down.

[sirs]

LOL.....<<Those that had no intention of voting for McCain or are of the Obama Kool-aide swooning corp, the pick means nothing to them, and you'll ususally find them tripping all over themselves into telling the rest of us how fatally it shot his Presidential chances.  In other words, their POV is so biased, we can pretty much ignore such proclamations>>..... read : Beverly Hillbillies & Racism

[Kramer]

There's a lot going on.

Personally, I think a lot of this drip, drip, drip that is coming out about Palin is going to wind up hurting the GOP with their very own base not to mention with moderates who don't like the image that is slowly and unfortunately forming of Palin and her family.

More and more her image is not forming up as a conservative ideologue who supports the second amendment, supports life from conception and believes that spending is out of control.

Sadly, what's forming is that of a family drawn from any episode of Jerry Springer.  What it will be interesting to find out is if Jerry Springer watchers are also the type to slide off the couch and go down and get registered to vote.

You couldn't be more wrong but I'm sure you are used to it. If anything you are a typical Jerry Springer type.

[fatman]

True Fence sitters, who care little for either party.  Who to vote for?, the lesser of the 2 evils?, 3rd party?, or sit it out?  I'd very much like to see both Prince's and Fatman's current levels of voting interest now following the Palin pick.  If what I've heard, both at work and those I've heard on the radio, again......

You have a pretty good summation sirs.  Palin to me is a personification of the Republican Party as a whole, with all of the dislikes and likes that I have about that Party.  On the one hand, she's a social conservative, which I generally dislike.  So long as people are doing something that isn't illegal, it's no one's business but their own.  And I mean this in the best possible way, but keep the morality in the churches. </end mini rant>  On the other hand, she is from the West, understands the necessities and complexities of industry that relies on resource extraction, and has fought corruption in her own state.  She's a small town girl from Idaho that made it good, and that is commendable.

A couple of other points.  Her family is not running for office, so it doesn't bother me that her daughter is pregnant.  It does bother me that it's the left trying to make hay of the issue, I could expect it from the religious right, but this reeks of hypocrisy.  I think that it's a move that will backfire if it is made a major issue.  The other point is that her lack of experience doesn't really matter to me.  Even if McCain were to die or resign the office, I think that she has plenty of time to get her feet underneath her.  There is only one way to gain experience, and that is...


To do it.

[sirs]

I so do appreciate the input Fat........pretty much what I would have expected, objective, and not holding back for any party.  2 specific appreciative references I'd like to highlight.  1) your accurate assessment at how the "party of diversity" is hypocritically treating her family, and 2) how her experience level, coming in as a VP, is not near the achilles heel the left is trying to make of it

Thanks again.  Now, you seen Prince anywhere?   

[Brassmask]

You couldn't be more wrong but I'm sure you are used to it. If anything you are a typical Jerry Springer type.

Um, yeah, like Ray Charles says, "You don't know me..."

[sirs]

PRINCE...been a while.  good to seeyas.     I was hoping, in your leisure, you might take a look at this post, where I specifically was curious as to what you & Fatman might be thinking.  I got Fat's, but you had been a tad absent at the time I posted it

In particular:  True Fence sitters, who care little for either party.  Who to vote for?, the lesser of the 2 evils?, 3rd party?, or sit it out?  I'd very much like to see both Prince's and Fatman's current levels of voting interest now following the Palin pick.

[Michael Tee]

Funny how fast things change in a few days.  I looked at the date at the top of this thread - - Sept. 1.  The Palin bounce was still bouncing and now it's largely faded away.  Troopergate continues . . .

To fatman, I want to say only that you have totally misconstrued the Left's take on Palin's pregnant teen - - it's not that the Left gives a shit about the "immorality" of teenage sex, it's the fucking HYPOCRISY of these "family values" politicians and the Republican Party in particular which is angling for the support of the Christian Right, to whom - - one would think - - "family values" are all that important.

So who are the candidates they have to support - - against the real-life happy marriage of Obama and Michelle, the lying, cheating scumbag, McCain, who leaves his crippled and disfigured wife in a wheelchair to seek out a blonde billionaire bimbo twenty or thirty years his junior.  Yeah.  Family values.  And Palin, who apparently was too busy pursuing her political ambition to give any worthwhile guidance to her pregnant teenage daughter and looks like she'll have even LESS parental time to lavish on her Down syndrome baby.  More family values.    The real issue is HYPOCRISY, not family values.

What I meant about how fast things change was a reference to the economy.  Eight years of Republican mismanagement that McCain CAN'T run away from - - he was there, in the Senate, as a Republican, all those eight years and many, many more.  The roof is falling in, and he is NOW - - after two or three decades of service in the Senate - - NOW gonna shake things up?  Come on, if anyone can't see he and his party are a part of the problem, they need a new pair of glasses.  People REALLY want change now, and McCain is NOT change.  Not by a long shot.

[sirs]

And ironically, neither is Obama.  You need to look no further than in his veep pick, for that confirmation.  I mean, you could, but you'd keep coming the same thing, the ever ending mantra of "change", but when policies that aren't too vague to decipher or he's simply AWOL in, is just a tired old socialist agenda...higher taxes, more government regulations, bigger government, and "the rich" will pay for it all....or else they're not being patriotic. 

Oh, and let's not forget to "say whatever needs to be said, in order to get elected", which includes lying of course, and going back on nearly every pledge and promise made during the primaries.  Whatever it takes.....trashing families, trashing children, trashing mothers, pulling out the race card, because......well, because McCain is that evil

[Universe Prince]

3) True Fence sitters, who care little for either party.  Who to vote for?, the lesser of the 2 evils?, 3rd party?, or sit it out?  I'd very much like to see both Prince's and Fatman's current levels of voting interest now following the Palin pick.

I've given up voting for the lesser of two evils. The lesser of two evils is still evil. (I might vote for Barr, if he is even on the ballot here. But he doesn't exactly inspire me to want to vote.) Anyway, I like Palin on the surface, politically speaking. But then, Bush the Younger seemed to be arguing for smaller government too in 2000, and look how that turned out. That Palin is so enthusiastically with John McCain makes me wonder what she would really try achieve if she were to become President. And then there are her endorsements by conservatives I do not trust, like Sean Hannity. When people I do not like politically and who have spent more time looking at Palin than I have think she is great, it makes me wonder what I have missed. And for all the smaller government bona-fides that Palin supposedly has, Alaska still takes more money from than it gives to the federal government. Even if she were genuinely a more libertarian leaning candidate, I doubt it would be enough to make me want to vote for McCain. McCain, after all, is the one who will become President, and I still do not like and do not trust him.

Badnarik was a maverick. McCain is a poseur. Obama is naive. Barr is a disappointment. I may write in a vote for Harrison Bergeron. Voting for the other candidates would be a waste, and if I'm going to waste a vote, I might as well have some fun with it.

[sirs]

Your comments & POV are thoroughly appreciated, Prince.  Thanks