Author Topic: Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation  (Read 2195 times)

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Michael Tee

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Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation
« on: September 06, 2008, 07:56:27 AM »
In retrospect, at least at this point in time, it looks to me like picking Biden was a huge mistake for Obama.  His message of "change" rings hollow.  Biden is an old hack, he supported the war in the beginning and he personifies the pandering of the Democratic Party to the "duty, honour, country" bullshit of the hard right.  Not that there's anything wrong with "duty, honour, country" per se, but it's been appropriated by the Party of the Rich to obscure their denial of all benefits, entitlements and social welfare to the bottom 80% of the population in such key areas as education, health care and housing.

But what's done is done.  The first step in repairing the damage is to put Biden to work, selling Obama in the white-trash communities where he isn't doing well despite representing their best interests.  Biden has to persuade the morons that Obama is on their side and McCain isn't, despite the cultural contra-indications.  Biden's one of them, and he stands as good a chance as anyone of getting them to look past the cultural divide and correctly analyze the fundamentals, the basic underlying economics.  The class war issues, if you will, although to those Neanderthals, any mention of "class war" would probably send them fleeing in panic right into the arms of their class enemies.

But the main problem, as I see it, is that the MSM has pretty much allowed McCain (and Palin) to define themselves.  This has got to stop immediately, as the current definition of both of these characters is dangerous and misleading.  The key target in any of this re-branding effort has to be McCain, who is by far the most vulnerable.  Attacks on Palin, unless done by women, tend to appear as unchivalrous or misogynistic and garner a false sympathy for the woman.

Although, if the Republican defenders of Palin are as upset by "misogyny" and attacking the "children" as they claim to be, it would be interesting to look back for any signs of outrage at McCain's joke a few years back that Chelsea was so "ugly" because she was conceived in a love match between Janet Reno and Hillary.  Or his earlier laughter in THIS campaign, when one of his lady supporters asked, on camera, "How do we beat the bitch?" [Hillary] and further general hilarity when one of his male staffers remarked, "I thought she was talking about my ex-wife."  As a matter of fact, I think those earlier McCain moments ought to be given prominent replay, they're just as relevant now as when they were made, and they serve to inoculate critics of Sarah Barracuda from fake outrage over their so-called "misogyny."

So I think Hillary and other Democratic women ought to go after Palin for her anti-woman stance on the essentials (choice, Roe v. Wade, minimum wage, etc.) and maybe (just to tease out the "misogyny" protests) some male critics like Biden also to slam her hard.  And as soon as the "misogyny" cry is raised, give' em a double blast from both barrels of MCCAIN'S misogyny, which is the real thing, unadulterated, crude and cruel. 

But the main thrust of the campaign ought to concentrate on two things - - first, the definition of the real McCain.  This guy is a "maverick?"  He's been in Congress 35 years and he's a Republican Party stalwart and now he's the one to fix the mess?  What kinda maverick?  How long did he put up with and contribute to the mess?  What lasting difference did he make?  The whole "maverick" thing has got to be fully exploded.  He stood with his party on every wrong thing they did (and everything they did was a wrong thing) and where he "reached across the aisle," what difference did ANY of his efforts make in the lives of the working people?  This guy is no maverick.   

The second thrust of the campaign should be the sheer awfulness of Barracuda to serve in any capacity.  A bird-brained right-wing puppet who can't even run her own family, a failed mom, a corrupt politician masquerading as a "reformer"  (hit hard on her stonewalling the Troopergate inquiry she promised full cooperation to, her unexplained associations with indicted Senator Ted Stevenson, her support for the Bridge to Nowhere) and her positions on abortion, minimum wage, etc.  Hit on McCain's mortality, the Supreme Court seats coming up for grabs, and the tragedy of her (or McCain) selecting the replacements.

This is a terribly weak Republican ticket, and for it to run neck and neck with Obama is outrageous.  Something is really wrong with Obama's campaign and it can't all be blamed on racism.

Obama needs more attack surrogates and needs 'em NOW.  McCain's vulnerable on his insider status, his phony "maverick" claims and even the phony torture claims, although these have to be attacked not as phony claims but as ancient history.  The guy has to be ridiculed for how many times he mentions his POW status in a single speech, but only in a non-confrontational way, basically he's always looking backward, we need someone focused on TODAY and TOMORROW, not yesterday.  Obama's got to get his ass in gear.  So far he's been great at mobilizing new voters and young voters, now he's got to get out the attack dogs.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2008, 08:04:03 AM by Michael Tee »

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2008, 02:33:59 PM »
I am not sure Biden was ther best choice for a running mate. I think Hilllary would have been better as a candidate, but Biden should make a better VP.


McCain is a maverick on two issues: he stood up to the Juniorbushes for a time on torture, though now he seems to have decided that previous torture was okay and dopesnt need to be prosecuted, because the torturees were really bad guys and they are not torturing any more, or at least say they aren't.



He was also a maverick on the campaign finance issue: he disagreed with Mitch McConnell that vast sums of money should not be allowed to sent without some restrictions by fatcats to candidates.


He also seems to have been rather pissed at Jack Abramowitz, for hazing some dumb Injuns. I am not sayng this because I think Indians are dumb. The Indians Abramowitz robbed were, however, truly dumb, and deliberately chosen because of their lack of smarts. Still, they did not deserve to be robbed.

Other than that, he's hardly a reformer. Certainly not even close to the straight talker Barry Goldwater was. Goldwater never liked McCain and resented McCain gaining his seat in the Senate, because he thought that McCain was a bogus fake carpetbagger rather than a real Arizonian.

Anyone who really wants change should realize that they will get more and better change with Obama than with McCain. It is insane to say that we need to spend more bazillions in Iraq, but we don't need to pay for it by ending Juniorbush's tax relief for the very rich plan.

Obama needs to ask: "Do you favor borrowing even more from the Communist Chinese to continue a colonial war in Iraq?"

"Will you continue to borrow and squander?"


It is ludicrous to present Palin as some sort of Hillary substitute. She is at best a shill. Perhaps she might get her own opions across, but then again, look at her opinions: how can any sane person say that no abortion is ever justified?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2008, 04:32:36 PM »
Obama definately needs to run on a more ..... McCain was never tortured & Palin is a bimbo tact.  That'll pull him out of his current rut         ;)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2008, 06:05:31 PM »

It is ludicrous to present Palin as some sort of Hillary substitute. She is at best a shill. Perhaps she might get her own opions across, but then again, look at her opinions: how can any sane person say that no abortion is ever justified?


Yes you are insane to attribute such a statement , or do you have a quote? A sorce?

Plane

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Re: Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2008, 06:12:08 PM »

But what's done is done.  The first step in repairing the damage is to put Biden to work, selling Obama in the white-trash communities where he isn't doing well despite representing their best interests.  Biden has to persuade the morons that Obama is on their side and McCain isn't, despite the cultural contra-indications.  Biden's one of them, and he stands as good a chance as anyone of getting them to look past the cultural divide and correctly analyze the fundamentals, the basic underlying economics.  The class war issues, if you will, although to those Neanderthals, any mention of "class war" would probably send them fleeing in panic right into the arms of their class enemies.


I think it is really hard to say "Listen up you Neanderthals and rednecks , I am the one that is on your side!

Guys like us you see are just too simpleminded to understand how someone who can't respect us is on our side at all.

Quote

The second thrust of the campaign should be the sheer awfulness of Barracuda to serve in any capacity.  A bird-brained right-wing puppet who can't even run her own family, a failed mom, a corrupt politician masquerading as a "reformer"  (hit hard on her stonewalling the Troopergate inquiry she promised full cooperation to, her unexplained associations with indicted Senator Ted Stevenson, her support for the Bridge to Nowhere) and her positions on abortion, minimum wage, etc.  Hit on McCain's mortality, the Supreme Court seats coming up for grabs, and the tragedy of her (or McCain) selecting the replacements.

This is a terribly weak Republican ticket, and for it to run neck and neck with Obama is outrageous.  Something is really wrong with Obama's campaign and it can't all be blamed on racism.

Obama needs more attack surrogates and needs 'em NOW.  McCain's vulnerable on his insider status, his phony "maverick" claims and even the phony torture claims, although these have to be attacked not as phony claims but as ancient history.  The guy has to be ridiculed for how many times he mentions his POW status in a single speech, but only in a non-confrontational way, basically he's always looking backward, we need someone focused on TODAY and TOMORROW, not yesterday.  Obama's got to get his ass in gear.  So far he's been great at mobilizing new voters and young voters, now he's got to get out the attack dogs.

I like your plan a lot!

 Release the hounds , ... or release the Yorkshire Terriers , whatever you got , all the yipping and snarling should be up frount and in everyones face.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2008, 07:05:21 PM by Plane »

sirs

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Re: Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2008, 06:47:22 PM »
Brilliant response, Plane     8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Kramer

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Re: Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2008, 08:22:47 PM »
"it looks to me like picking Biden was a huge mistake for Obama.  His message of "change" rings hollow.  Biden is an old hack, he supported the war in the beginning"


Are you lifting my lines again?




Michael Tee

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Re: Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2008, 12:00:25 PM »
<<Guys like us you see are just too simpleminded to understand how someone who can't respect us is on our side at all.>>

Think of it as tough love.  You're not Einsteins and nobody's gonna call ya Einsteins.  At the same time, Obama DOES act in your interests and McCain and Palin do not.  You're too blinded by your own racism and the fake populism of the Republicans to accept Obama's word, but Biden is "one a yooze" and maybe you'll be more receptive to what HE has to say.

sirs

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Re: Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2008, 06:43:32 PM »
Highly doubtful
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2008, 08:40:32 PM »
<<Guys like us you see are just too simpleminded to understand how someone who can't respect us is on our side at all.>>

Think of it as tough love.  You're not Einsteins and nobody's gonna call ya Einsteins.  At the same time, Obama DOES act in your interests and McCain and Palin do not.  You're too blinded by your own racism and the fake populism of the Republicans to accept Obama's word, but Biden is "one a yooze" and maybe you'll be more receptive to what HE has to say.

What is a yooze?

If Biden is a Yoose , I don't suppose I am one , I don't see a lot of commonality.

How do you know we are not Einstiens?  Wisdom is foolishness to a fool , so when two think each other foolish it it certain one is right and probable that both are.

If Obama acts in our intrest while holding us in contempt , I can do without the intrest , for the sake of doing without the contempt.

Michael Tee

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Re: Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2008, 10:11:47 PM »
<<If Obama acts in our intrest while holding us in contempt , I can do without the intrest , for the sake of doing without the contempt.>>

Howzit possible NOT to hold someone in contempt who thinks that not wearing a flag lapel pin is proof of a lack of patriotism or who paints a Confederate flag on his pick-up truck?

Plane

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Re: Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2008, 10:49:00 PM »
<<If Obama acts in our intrest while holding us in contempt , I can do without the intrest , for the sake of doing without the contempt.>>

Howzit possible NOT to hold someone in contempt who thinks that not wearing a flag lapel pin is proof of a lack of patriotism or who paints a Confederate flag on his pick-up truck?


It does not matter why you hold me in contempt , once you do , you shouldn't ask for my vote , nor tell me that you are good for me.

The reverse is the refusal of so many Black people to vote for Republicans , even when the practical facts and natural sympathys would cause a lot of commonality , there is a perception of contempt , which whether true or false is enough to choke off support.

If you are looking for Obama's salvation in bamboozlement of people he has no respect for into voteing for him , you have it backwards.

His salvation on that frount would be to paint a Rebel Flag on his campaign Bus and adress the trailer trash as equals  , you morn his lack of the common touch just as much as you celebrate his eleteism.

Eleteism isn't being a better class , it is holding other classes in contempt. Being elete is a good thing , haveing contempt of fellow man is not.

Michael Tee

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Re: Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2008, 01:19:42 AM »
<<It does not matter why you hold me in contempt , once you do , you shouldn't ask for my vote , nor tell me that you are good for me.>>

I think that is the essence of ethical behaviour.  Believe me, the Republican elite holds the rednecks in contempt, but they manipulate them, pander to them, pretend to be of them, all the better to rip them off and fuck them every way they can.  A Democrat like Obama, if he's true to himself, can't possibly respect these hillbilly morons - - what, after all, is there to respect?  Their racism?  Their fucking ignorance?  their love of war and battle?  Their indifference to the suffering of "furriners?"  Fuck them, they are total morons and they can't possibly be allowed to have their way about anything. 

However, they are being painfully exploited in their ignorance by Republicans who know better.  Their sons and now their daughters are being taken into a military which sacrifices their lives and health in the interests of an elite which sees only a mistaken path to get rich quick by stealing the oil of a poor Third World country.  Their tax dollars, pitiful handfuls though they are, are taken from them and never applied in ways that would do them any good - - in affordable health care, decent housing, decent education - - but squandered on the priorities of the affluent elite which have nothing whatever to do with the priorities of these Neanderthals.  And Obama says, they may be dumb, they may be racist, they may be violent and brutal - - but God damn it, this kind of shameless exploitation has got to stop and stop now!

<<The reverse is the refusal of so many Black people to vote for Republicans , even when the practical facts and natural sympathys would cause a lot of commonality , there is a perception of contempt , which whether true or false is enough to choke off support.>>

False analogy.  Blacks don't vote for Republicans because Republicans don't do anything for blacks and blacks know it.  The natural constituency of the Republicans is wealthy white males plus a relative handful of arrivistes whose interests coincide with theirs.  Blacks know that they are not a part of that constituency, except for a few Uncle Toms who have the low character and total lack of self-respect that enables them to seek their personal fortune among those that despise them and their families.

<<If you are looking for Obama's salvation in bamboozlement of people he has no respect for into voteing for him , you have it backwards.>>

It isn't really bamboozling if he really has their interests at heart and the Republicans don't.

<<His salvation on that frount would be to paint a Rebel Flag on his campaign Bus and adress the trailer trash as equals  >>

The Republicans have already beaten him to the punch and staked out that ground for themselves.

<<you morn his lack of the common touch just as much as you celebrate his eleteism.>>

I don't know that I "mourn" it, I told him how to work around it by using surrogates like Biden.

<<Eleteism isn't being a better class , it is holding other classes in contempt. >>

An elite is just a group of people who are much better than those who are not in the group.  We have elite athletes, elite scholars and scientists, elite warriors and probably elite murderers.

<<Being elete is a good thing  . . .>>

<< . . .  haveing contempt of fellow man is not.>>

Well, it's two sides of the coin.  If the elite have earned the respect of the world, the opposite of the elite must have earned its contempt.  There is no reason to celebrate morons, racists, war-mongers, Confederate flag-wavers, inbred congenital idiots, etc.  It's shameful for the Republicans to pander to them and exploit them, but that's just what Republicans do.  It would be hypocritical for Obama to pretend a respect for them, which would be both undeserved and ridiculous, but I think it's legitimate for Obama to tell them he has their best interests at heart (if it's true) and why they should vote for him.  Obviously it would just be needlessly rubbing their nose in it to insult them at the same time, but there's no need for thim to tell them he thinks they're a great group when they so obviously are not.

sirs

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Re: Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2008, 01:32:12 AM »
<<It does not matter why you hold me in contempt , once you do , you shouldn't ask for my vote , nor tell me that you are good for me.>>

I think that is the essence of ethical behaviour.  Believe me, the Republican elite holds the rednecks in contempt, but they manipulate them, pander to them, pretend to be of them, all the better to rip them off and fuck them every way they can.  

How ironic......the Democrat Elite routinely do that to the African American community.  Whoda thunk that?  But if this is coming down to who to "believe", given your track record, especially as of late, I don't think that's a path most rationally minded folks are going to take




"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Obama's Problem, Obama's Salvation
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2008, 01:45:07 AM »
<<How ironic......the Democrat Elite routinely do that to the African American community.  Whoda thunk that?  But if this is coming down to who to "believe", given your track record, especially as of late, I don't think that's a path most rationally minded folks are going to take>>

I'm kinda puzzled by the reference to my track record.  Seems OK to me.  What was there in it to discourage "most rationally minded folk" from following my path?