Bristol Palin and Murphy Brown

[Amianthus]

My flashlights will not work if the batteries are reversed. Not one of them.

That's fine. However, you extrapolated from this bit of information that no flashlight will work with the batteries reversed, and even claimed to have asked electrical engineers why this was so, but could not get an answer.

And yet, even though I was apparently delusional, I could get it to work. Even showed you a video of it.

It's the same thing with this issue; apparently because birth control works in many cases, you have extrapolated that only people who want to have children, or are sex crazed, or don't use birth control at all, get pregnant. However, there are plenty of people who use birth control and get pregnant every year.

Just because you extrapolate does not mean that you are correct. In many cases, you are wrong.

BTW, since you wanted more hard data, below is a clip of a table from this article which shows that even using the pill (one of the most effective birth control methods) about 13% of women experience birth control failures during the first two years. Is that specific enough?

[richpo64]

>>On the one hand, the Republicans want to make a big deal about what a good mother Palin is.<<

I don't recall any Republican making such claims, not even Governor Palin. What I do see is liberals calling her a bad mother because her daughter is pregnant. This is of course ridiculous on it's face. We know Governor Palin prefers abstinence for teens but isn't opposed to contraception for adults. Simple really. Most people think the same way. At least I’ve never met a parent who didn’t teach (and hope they listened) their children that waiting is better.


>>But then, no one can deny that a woman whose daughter does not get pregnant as a teenager would be a better mother than one whose daughter did get pregnant as a teenager.<<

Anyone can deny such a statement. And should. Otherwise you’d have to say that America is full of poor mothers. Which of course is ridiculous.

[Xavier_Onassis]

But then, no one can deny that a woman whose daughter does not get pregnant as a teenager would be a better mother than one whose daughter did get pregnant as a teenager.<<

Anyone can deny such a statement. And should. Otherwise you’d have to say that America is full of poor mothers. Which of course is ridiculous.

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First off, you are confusing the terms "better" and "poor".

America has many better mothers whose teenage daughters do not get pregnant due to the advice given to them by said mothers.

But is also has many mothers whose teenage daughters do get pregnant. They may be better in many other ways than the first group, but this is a type of failure.
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Second, your logic is faulty. To say that it is impossible for everyone in a group to be poor at something is simply bad thinking.

In the 1400's the world was filled with perfectly incompetent astronomers, all of whom believed that the Earth was at the exact center of Creation, and that the Sun and the rest of the universe revolved around it. There were many who were sure that the Earth was flat.

They were also nearly all awful biologists: they believed that rats and mice spontaneously generated from piles of rags and filth, aided by Satan.

Jesus (or most likely the author of one of the Gospels, I forget which) was a pretty incompetent psychologist. Once he met a madman, and allegedly cured him by dislodging the "demons" that possessed him into a herd of swine, who then committed porcine suicide, drowning themselves in a lake, we are told.

It seems pretty obvious that we all probably share in some totally false beliefs that will be disproved in the future.

Mass incompetence has been the case for much of human history.

[richpo64]

>>First off, you are confusing the terms "better" and "poor".<<

Please, spare me this nonsense. Your implication was clear.

[Xavier_Onassis]

It you think that logical thought is nonsense, it is useless to explain anything to you.

[richpo64]

Your logic is questionable as is your premise.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Just for fun, what do you think the premise is?

How about the logic?

[richpo64]

Just for fun, why don't you explain what you meant by:

"On the one hand, the Republicans want to make a big deal about what a good mother Palin is. But then, no one can deny that a woman whose daughter does not get pregnant as a teenager would be a better mother than one whose daughter did get pregnant as a teenager."

and then:

"But is also has many mothers whose teenage daughters do get pregnant. They may be better in many other ways than the first group, but this is a type of failure."

So you can be a 'less better" mother and a failure as long as you're ... Governor Palin? Please, see if you can parse this a little better because you seem to be bending over backwards to expalin away your judgement on mothers who's daughter get pregnant and are as you call them, failures ... or not failures ... based on ... what? Based on some form of logic only you are aware of?  Sure.

What is clear is that you're criteria is based on nothing more than your desire to smear Governor Palin. Ordinarily you would defends someone like this, that much we know. The only reason you're not is also known.

[Xavier_Onassis]

A perfect mother would not have a teenage daughter that gets pregnant.

Palin's teenage daughter became pregnant.

Therefore, Palin is not a perfect mother. Many mothers, however, do manage to get their daughters through their teenage years without them becoming pregnant.

The Republican party tells us that we should admire Palin as a mother of five who has also been successful in politics as a reformer.

But then it tells us that we may not point out flwas in her mothering skills because that is not "fair".

At the same time, it removes Palin from the position where she can be most effective as a reformer. The VP of the US has no authority to do anything about corruption. No VP since Harry Truman has uprooted corruption, and he did this only as a Senator BEFORE becoming VP.


I submit that there are two instances of illogic here.

_____________________________________
What is clear is that you're criteria is based on nothing more than your desire to smear Governor Palin. Ordinarily you would defends someone like this, that much we know. The only reason you're not is also known.'''


YOu have no way of knowing my motives. I did not smear Palin, I simply pointed out that one cannot extol her for being a good mother and then claim that any m,ention of her mothering skills is illogical.

If Palin is also a great reformer, why does it make sense to remove her from the position where she fights corruption and place her in a position where she will have no power whatsoever to do anything about corruption?

Is this not a victory for the corrupt? If not, how is this not so?

YOur interpretation of my motives have no bearing on the facts.

[sirs]

A perfect mother would not have a teenage daughter that gets pregnant.  Palin's teenage daughter became pregnant.  Therefore, Palin is not a perfect mother.

So Xo...please list us some examples of a "perfect mother"

[Xavier_Onassis]

I would say that a perfect mother would encourage her children to be all that they can be, both in their social and career lives. I would see a daughter getting to be pregnant as a teen to be evidence of less than perfect parenting skills. I am pretty sure that most middle class Americans would agre with this position.

But this is not the issue that I started with. There are two points: (1) the Republican Party should not expect that they can point to Palin being a successful mother with a career not be criticized for what most would consider a failure in parenting. (2) Since Palin is most successful at eliminating corruption in Alaska, why should they jerk her away from any possibility of continuing to eliminate corruption in Alaska.

Neither point in any way requires me to define a perfect mother. You are free to do this if you wish, but I do not wish to divert this topic, nor shall I do this.

[sirs]

Still waiting for that list of names, of those who are a "perfect mother"

[Xavier_Onassis]

Still waiting for that list of names, of those who are a "perfect mother"

(1) The Blesséd Virgin Mary

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As I said, that is not the point of my discussion, and I will not be bullied by you or anyone to diverting the topics. There are two to choose from, if you don;t like either, just withdraw or say you have nothing more to say.

I have nothing more to say.

If you like having the last word as assholes often do, go right ahead. Speak.

[sirs]

Apparently Xo still can't control himself....even when he's not responding to an attack.  Too bad

[richpo64]

>>A perfect mother would not have a teenage daughter that gets pregnant.<<

So now you've abandoned "better" for "perfect." FYI, nobody ever claimed Governor Palin is perfect. Like I said, the motivation is clear and frankly it's not worth addressing any further.