out of bounds

[Lanya]

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/staff/margaret_talev/v-print/story/52169.html

Posted on Tue, Sep. 09, 2008
Out of bounds! McCain misstates Obama sex-ed record
Margaret Talev | McClatchy Newspapers

last updated: September 09, 2008 07:44:08 PM

WASHINGTON — Throw the flag against: The McCain-Palin campaign.

Call: Unsportsmanlike conduct.

What happened: A new 30-second TV ad attacks Barack Obama's record on education, saying that Obama backed legislation to teach "'comprehensive sex education' to kindergartners." The announcer then says, "Learning about sex before learning to read? Barack Obama. Wrong on education. Wrong for your family."

Why that's wrong: This is a deliberately misleading accusation. It came hours after the Obama campaign released a TV ad critical of McCain's votes on public education. As a state senator in Illinois, Obama did vote for but was not a sponsor of legislation dealing with sex ed for grades K-12.

But the legislation allowed local school boards to teach "age-appropriate" sex education, not comprehensive lessons to kindergartners, and it gave schools the ability to warn young children about inappropriate touching and sexual predators.

Republican Alan Keyes tried to use Obama's vote against him in the 2004 U.S. Senate race. At the time, Obama spoke about wanting to protect young children from abuse. He made clear then that he was not supporting teaching kindergartners about explicit details of sex.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton said Tuesday of McCain's ad: "It is shameful and downright perverse for the McCain campaign to use a bill that was written to protect young children from sexual predators as a recycled and discredited political attack against a father of two young girls."

Penalty: 15 yards for the McCain campaign's deliberate low blow.

Check out McClatchy's expanded politics coverage

McClatchy Newspapers 2008

[Kramer]

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/staff/margaret_talev/v-print/story/52169.html

Posted on Tue, Sep. 09, 2008
Out of bounds! McCain misstates Obama sex-ed record
Margaret Talev | McClatchy Newspapers

last updated: September 09, 2008 07:44:08 PM

WASHINGTON — Throw the flag against: The McCain-Palin campaign.

Call: Unsportsmanlike conduct.

What happened: A new 30-second TV ad attacks Barack Obama's record on education, saying that Obama backed legislation to teach "'comprehensive sex education' to kindergartners." The announcer then says, "Learning about sex before learning to read? Barack Obama. Wrong on education. Wrong for your family."

Why that's wrong: This is a deliberately misleading accusation. It came hours after the Obama campaign released a TV ad critical of McCain's votes on public education. As a state senator in Illinois, Obama did vote for but was not a sponsor of legislation dealing with sex ed for grades K-12.

But the legislation allowed local school boards to teach "age-appropriate" sex education, not comprehensive lessons to kindergartners, and it gave schools the ability to warn young children about inappropriate touching and sexual predators.

Republican Alan Keyes tried to use Obama's vote against him in the 2004 U.S. Senate race. At the time, Obama spoke about wanting to protect young children from abuse. He made clear then that he was not supporting teaching kindergartners about explicit details of sex.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton said Tuesday of McCain's ad: "It is shameful and downright perverse for the McCain campaign to use a bill that was written to protect young children from sexual predators as a recycled and discredited political attack against a father of two young girls."

Penalty: 15 yards for the McCain campaign's deliberate low blow.

Check out McClatchy's expanded politics coverage

McClatchy Newspapers 2008

Obama said in a debate along with Edwards and Hillary that he supported that bill and indeed Michelle taught their two daughters that.

I suggest you do a little better research on the subject rather than take some crap off the web and post it as gospel truth.

So once again he will be proven to have been involved exactly as the McCain ad says it.

[richpo64]

>>I suggest you do a little better research on the subject rather than take some crap off the web and post it as gospel truth.<<

The truth is Barry DID vote for a bill that specifically called for the teaching of sex education to children before they could read, i.e. kindregarden. He's simply lying.

[BT]

Also as chair of he committee the bill was referred to prior to coming to the floor for the vote he had a lot to do with the bill being voted on at all.


BTW the bill also called for abstinence teaching, which is odd since he and other dems have been bashing Palin about that issue, inaccurately I might add.

[sirs]

as chair of he committee the bill was referred to prior to coming to the floor for the vote he had a lot to do with the bill being voted on at all.

the bill also called for abstinence teaching, which is odd since he and other dems have been bashing Palin about that issue, inaccurately I might add.

    Bt....say it ain't so.  That's gonna leave a mark       

[Michael Tee]

The sex ed that Obama voted for was "age appropriate" sex ed, K to 12.  Age appropriate in kindergarten would not include condom use and STDs but it WOULD include warning kids about predators, inappropriate touching and in general give them some protection against pedophile perverts.

Given the general prevalence of sexual predation in the GOP, I can see why they are so upset at Obama wanting to protect very young children against the likes of them. 

This is typical of the "values" controversy between Dems and GOP - - Obama tries to protect very young children against predators even though, for reasons everyone can well imagine, the GOP is adamantly opposed to such efforts.  Their ridiculous dogma - - "sex is bad, ignorance of sex is good" - - makes it a bad thing to make sure that kindergartners are adequately warned of sexual predation and inappropriate touching.

This is a good one for Obama to run with - - explain (1) his position in detail and (2) how the lying bastards of the GOP chose to misrepresent it and (3) how the GOP protects sexual predators at the expense of innocent young children.  Knock it out of the park, Obama!!

[richpo64]

>>The sex ed that Obama voted for was "age appropriate" sex ed, K to 12.  Age appropriate in kindergarten would not include condom use and STDs but it WOULD include warning kids about predators, inappropriate touching and in general give them some protection against pedophile perverts.<<

If that's the case I wouldn't have a problem with it. Can you show me proof that is what they teach?

[Plane]

The sex ed that Obama voted for was "age appropriate" sex ed, K to 12.  Age appropriate in kindergarten would not include condom use and STDs but it WOULD include warning kids about predators, inappropriate touching and in general give them some protection against pedophile perverts.

Given the general prevalence of sexual predation in the GOP, I can see why they are so upset at Obama wanting to protect very young children against the likes of them. 

This is typical of the "values" controversy between Dems and GOP - - Obama tries to protect very young children against predators even though, for reasons everyone can well imagine, the GOP is adamantly opposed to such efforts.  Their ridiculous dogma - - "sex is bad, ignorance of sex is good" - - makes it a bad thing to make sure that kindergartners are adequately warned of sexual predation and inappropriate touching.

This is a good one for Obama to run with - - explain (1) his position in detail and (2) how the lying bastards of the GOP chose to misrepresent it and (3) how the GOP protects sexual predators at the expense of innocent young children.  Knock it out of the park, Obama!!

If it works that way , then perhaps BHO should avoid pitching softballs to McCain like misquoting his "one hundred years" remark , miscaricterisations seem to stick with people who are receptive to them.

[Michael Tee]

<<If that's the case I wouldn't have a problem with it. Can you show me proof that is what they teach?>>

Obama's role as a legislator is limited to passing the bill.  The bill says "age appropriate."  The only age-appropriate sex ed for KG that I can think of is warnings about inappropriate touching and sexual predators.

How the legislation is put into practice and what is actually taught is the executive branch's problem.  If the bill were to be mis-used (and so far there's no evidence that it has been) then remedies exist within the system.  If, to pick an absurd example, a KG teacher were to hand out condoms in class, claiming a mandate under the bill, I think there are plenty of ways to exercise discipline and put a stop to the practice immediately.

[richpo64]

I see.

You can't.

[Michael Tee]

I see.

You can't.

=======================================

I just finished (I thought) demonstrating the irrelevance of the challenge.  No I can't, neither can you, and it has nothing to do with the nature of the legislation that Obama supported.

[richpo64]

>>No I can't, neither can you ...<<

Why would I? You made what appears to be a completely false statement which is backed up by your inability to provide even a shread of evidence.

[Michael Tee]

<<Why would I? You made what appears to be a completely false statement which is backed up by your inability to provide even a shread of evidence.>>

That's ridiculous.  The statement I made relates to the content of the legislation.  It is what it is.  I said that the legislation provided for "age-appropriate" sex ed from K to 12.  "Age-appropriate" is either what's in the legislation or it's not.  If you feel that's a false statement, show me a copy of the legislation that does not have "age-appropriate" written into it.  You can't.  You lose.

As to what "age-appropriate" means, I suggested it included (for KG) warnings about sexual predators and guidelines as to appropriate and inappropriate touching.  I did not feel that it would be "age-appropriate" for kindergartners to learn about condoms and STDs.  That's just my interpretation, it makes sense to me and to many other people.  I'm not going to provide any evidence for that, you can agree with my interpretation of "age-appropriate" or not.

You, on the other hand, seem to think that such things as condoms and learning about STDS are "age-apropriate" for KG students and that an application of the legislation to KG students would permit them to be taught about such things.  That is your interpretation of "age-appropriate" and accordingly you believe that that is what is now being taught to KG students under this law.  Frankly although you are entitled to any interpretation you like about what is or is not "age-appropriate" to KG students, that is a pretty bizarre and far-out interpretation, and I don't think very many people besides yourself would agree with it.

Your challenge to me to describe what is actually being taught to KG students as a result of the legislation that Obama supported is totally irrelevant.  Any law can be flouted, disobeyed or misinterpreted.  Laws against murder are routinely violated by citizens.  Because some citizens in fact disobey the law against murder does not make the law itself bad.  If Barak had voted to outlaw murder, would you be asking me whether the law was being observed or not?  If some teacher somewhere is taking advantage of the legislation to hand out condoms in KG, that is a matter for the school board to deal with and discipline the teacher for failure to use age-appropriate material for sex ed in KG. 

The law itself, which never permitted such action by any reasonable interpretation, is still a good law and Obama was right to support it.  His opponents are wrong to oppose it.  Obama voted in the interests of the children, his opponents acted against them.