Uh-oh. Sick Feeling Here. This Could Be Real Bad for Obama.

[Michael Tee]

This bail-out came out way too quick and I'm getting a real sick feeling about it.  The objections to executive salaries are bullshit.  Compared to the amount of money being asked for, the salaries are really small potatoes.  Put it this way - - if I were going to pull a major rip-off in a deal, I'd build in some points I could afford to concede.  The Democrats can scream about the executive salaries, the Republicans can agree to trim them.  The Democrats walk out looking like heroes - - they didn't swallow the whole plan, they fought for and won concessions.  And the plan goes through as it was originally intended to go through.  The bad guys get everything they hoped to get.

This is probably a repeat of the fraudulent "reasons for war" scam of the Bush administration.  NOTHING good can come from these people because there is nothing good about them.  OTOH if Obama stands in the road without demonstrably good reason, he'll be damned as an obstructionist. 

So my first question is, What is the provenance of this plan?  Is it a Republican plan with Democratic tweaks and frills?  In that case (and I think it is) then WATCH OUT!!!  The odds are huge that this is a cleverly tricked-out scam of humungous proportions, especially since it's practically Bush's last chance to loot the Treasury on behalf of his backers.  This could be bigger than Iraq.

Obama desperately needs an intensive analysis of the plan by some of the finest brains of the country independent of the Fortune 500 world.  John Stieglitz, the Nobel-Prize-winning economist who calculated the total cost of the Iraqi war comes to mind; I'd also want to know what Ron Paul thinks of it, and Paul Craig Roberts, and Paul Krugman.  We desperately need an overview of this plan, what's the essence of the plan, who benefits, what were the alternatives and who's left off the gravy train, and why.

Do we know any of this?  I expect Obama to be right on top.  It just smacks of a Treasury raid the night before Bush packs up and leaves with the silverware.  Where is Obama in this, who's he consulting?  Rubber-stamping something like this is totally unacceptable.  McCain's a fucking moron, he's there to gain political points for his campaign, that's perfectly obvious, but Obama will be badly hurt if he just swallows a bad deal.  He'll lose all the cred he got for opposing the war on Iraq.

[Knutey]

This is what I have been trying to tell y'all. This is the final drowning of the governmental baby. When Big O is elected, there will not be enough money or credit  in the treasury to buy dentures for McCain.  I was beginning to wonder if Bush is an  idiot for being able to turn US into a 3rd world country. But then I decided to that he is indeed an idiot for wanting to do that.

[BT]

Yeah the stakes are tremendous for Obama. Especially with the dems controlling both houses and have the final say on what the legislation looks like.

Hope this isn't above his paygrade.

It's all on his shoulders now.

[Knutey]

Yeah the stakes are tremendous for Obama. Especially with the dems controlling both houses and have the final say on what the legislation looks like.

Hope this isn't above his paygrade.

It's all on his shoulders now.

He is niot God which is who he was referring to. I know you think you are , but you have really fucked it up this time.

[BT]

He is niot God which is who he was referring to. I know you think you are , but you have really fucked it up this time.

Of course he isn't.

But Mikey's right, if he caves on shepherding the legislation to look like his long awaited bailout plan, his credibility suffers.

I'd hate to be in his shoes. The pressure must be tremendous. He looked so smart, so presidential, so on top of things when he revealed his plans , it would be a same if he couldn't deliver.

Surely as a leader of his exalted calibre,  he can control his own party.

Should be a slam dunk, no?

[Plane]

  I am learning more and I don't like this either.

  McCain can't force anything to happen , the best idea he could possibly come up with might be rejected for political reasons , I think the situation is making him hostage to the Democrats of the concerned committees . A small plurality of a couple of committees can pass or hold up progress based not only on themerits of the bill , but also on the effective election timing.

  And the Republicans are not being cooperative either , perhaps McCain can do some good , but the time he spends being a serious Senator and party leader can cost him this presidential election.

[Michael Tee]

From what I was able to check out, Krugman and Ron Paul are both against the bail-out, which means it has to be seriously flawed.  ANYTHING that comes out of conservative Republicans is tainted meat.  If they try to force this down McCain's throat, he's dumb enough to swallow anything.  If Obama swallows, it won't be out of dumbness but some kind of cowardly political calculation whereby he calculates the damage to be caused to him in lost votes by appearing to be an obstructionist and figures it's easier to do the wrong thing and get to keep the votes.  Compromising principles for votes.  Plus the whole thing is even more complex since I can't figure out what's wrong exactly with the plan.  Both Krugman and Paul seem to be against it on general free-market principles, don't prop up a sick player, let him fail.  It's like a bird falls out of the nest, you don't save it because that would be anti-Darwinian and corrupt the bloodline of the species.  But then I figure they're fucked either way, so propping up some sick players at least gives everyone else a few more good years.  But maybe at the cost of a harder fall later.  A lot at stake.  And I think they are all too rushed.

[BT]

Poor Obama.

He has a plan you know.

If only his colleagues would listen.

[Knutey]

  I am learning more and I don't like this either.

  McCain can't force anything to happen , the best idea he could possibly come up with might be rejected for political reasons , I think the situation is making him hostage to the Democrats of the concerned committees . A small plurality of a couple of committees can pass or hold up progress based not only on themerits of the bill , but also on the effective election timing.

  And the Republicans are not being cooperative either , perhaps McCain can do some good , but the time he spends being a serious Senator and party leader can cost him this presidential election.

YOU should LOVE this bailout Plane. If it passes , it will end the possibilty of any functioning guvmint for decades . Aint that always what y'all wanted? What kind of conservative are youanyways.

And dont sell ol Johnny short. He may be the smartest one of all and want to throw the election when this shit happens. WTF- he is 72 and in bad healthe with a rich and beautiful wife with 7 o8 8 houses. Whats he need the shit for. Besides , he really doesnt have any new or interesting ideas and only wants the job as an ego trip. His ego probly wont take him being the second worst Pres with you-know - who as #1

[Michael Tee]

Poor Obama.

He has a plan you know.

If only his colleagues would listen.

===========================================

Is that your sarcastic way of saying that Obama has no plan?  Or is it a dig at his leadership abilities?

[BT]

You really are thrown off stride when people agree with you.

[Plane]

You really are thrown off stride when people agree with you.

That happened to me yesterday.

I gotta try that again soon , agreement as argument , whodathunk?