Author Topic: It Makes Me Sick. Where's My Checkbook?  (Read 1794 times)

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fatman

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It Makes Me Sick. Where's My Checkbook?
« on: September 28, 2008, 11:30:08 PM »
The original article has many embedded links.

Sexual cleansing in Iraq
Islamist deaths squads are hunting down gay Iraqis and summarily executing them
Peter Tatchell
guardian.co.uk
Thursday September 25 2008 07:00 Some of the links in this article will take you to sites containing images of violence which you may find disturbing

The "improved" security situation in Iraq is not benefiting all Iraqis, especially not those who are gay. Islamist death squads are engaged in a homophobic killing spree with the active encouragement of leading Muslim clerics, such as Moqtada al-Sadr, as Newsweek recently revealed.

One of these clerics, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, issued a fatwa urging the killing of lesbians and gays in the "most severe way possible".

The short film, Queer Fear – Gay Life, Gay Death in Iraq, produced by David Grey for Village Film, documents the tragic fates of a several individual gay Iraqis. You can view it here. Watch and weep. It is a truly poignant and moving documentary about the terrorisation and murder of Iraqi lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people.

Since this film was made, the killings have continued and, many say, got worse. For gay Iraqis there is little evidence of the transition to democracy. They don't experience any newfound respect for human rights. Life for them is even worse than under the tyrant Saddam Hussein.

It is a death sentence in today's "liberated" Iraq to love a person of the same sex, or for a woman to have sex outside of marriage, or for a Muslim to give up his or her faith or embrace another religion.

The reality on the ground is that theocracy is taking hold of the country, including in Basra, which was abandoned by the British military. In place of foreign occupation, the city's inhabitants now endure the terror of fundamentalist militias and death squads.

Those who are deemed insufficiently devout and pure are liable to be assassinated.

The death squads of the Badr organisation and the Mahdi army are targeting gays and lesbians, according to UN reports, in a systematic campaign of sexual cleansing. They proudly boast of their success, claiming that they have already exterminated all "perverts and sodomites" in many of the major cities.

You can view photos of a few of the LGBT victims of these summary executions
here and here.

My friends in Iraq have relayed to me the tragic story of five gay activists, who belonged to the underground gay rights movement, Iraqi LGBT.

Eye-witnesses confirm that they saw the men being led out of a house at gunpoint by officers in police uniform. Yes, Iraqi police! Nothing has been heard of the five victims since then. In all probability, they have been executed by the police – or by Islamist death squads who have infiltrated the Iraqi police and who are using their uniforms to carry out so-called honour killings of gay people, unchaste women and many others.

The arrested and disappeared men were Amjad 27, Rafid 29, Hassan 24, Ayman 19 and Ali 21. As members of Iraq's covert gay rights movement, for the previous few months they had been documenting the killing of lesbians and gays, relaying details of the murders to the outside world, and providing safe houses and support to other gay people fleeing the death squads.

Their abduction is just one of many outrages by anti-gay death squads. lslamist killers burst into the home of two lesbian women in the city of Najaf. They shot them dead, slashed their throats, and also murdered a young child who the women had rescued from the sex trade. The two women, both in their mid-30s, were members of Iraqi LGBT. They were providing a safe house for gay men on the run from death squads. By sheer luck, none of the men who were being given shelter in the house were at home when the assassins struck. They have since fled to Baghdad, and are hiding in an Iraqi LGBT safe house there.

Large parts of Iraq are now under the de facto control of the militias and their death squad units. They enforce a harsh interpretation of sharia law, summarily executing people for what they denounce as "crimes against Islam". These "crimes" include listening to western pop music, wearing shorts or jeans, drinking alcohol, selling videos, working in a barber's shop, homosexuality, dancing, having a Sunni name, adultery and, in the case of women, not being veiled or walking in the street unaccompanied by a male relative.

Two militias are doing most of the killing. They are the armed wings of major parties in the Bush and Brown-backed Iraqi government. The Mahdi army is the militia of Moqtada al-Sadr, and the Badr organisation is the militia of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), which is the leading political force in Baghdad's governing coalition. Both militias want to establish an Iranian-style religious dictatorship. The allied occupation of Iraq is bad enough. But if the Mahdi or Badr militias gain in influence and strength, as seems likely in the long-term, it could result in a reign of religious terror many times worse.

Saddam Hussein was a bloody tyrant. I campaigned against his blood-stained misrule for nearly 30 years. But while Saddam was president, there was certainly no danger of gay people being assassinated in their homes and in the street by religious fanatics.

Since his overthrow, the violent persecution of lesbians and gays is much worse. Even children suspected of being gay are abducted and later found shot in the head.

Lesbian and gay Iraqis cannot seek the protection of the police, since the police are heavily infiltrated by fundamentalists, especially the Badr militia. The death squads can kill with impunity. Pro-fundamentalist ministers in the Iraqi government are turning a blind eye to the killings, and helping to protect the killers. Some "liberation".

Iraqi LGBT is appealing for funds to help the work of their members in Iraq. Since they don't yet have a bank account, they request that cheques should be made payable to "OutRage!", with a cover note marked "For Iraqi LGBT", and sent to OutRage!, PO Box 17816, London SW14 8WT.

Guardian

BT

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Re: It Makes Me Sick. Where's My Checkbook?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2008, 12:33:48 AM »
Sorry to read this, fatman.


Lanya

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Re: It Makes Me Sick. Where's My Checkbook?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2008, 03:03:53 AM »
  Horrible and sad news.
Planned Parenthood is America’s most trusted provider of reproductive health care.

Plane

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« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 04:35:20 AM by Plane »

Christians4LessGvt

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: It Makes Me Sick. Where's My Checkbook?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2008, 12:31:13 PM »
The Iranians are buffoons. Iranian society considers Bahai's, gays, and some other groups to be so deviant that they deserve to expelled or killed. Of course, this will not eliminate gays, they will just go underground and become invisible.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

fatman

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Re: It Makes Me Sick. Where's My Checkbook?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2008, 11:40:47 PM »
http://iraqilgbtuk.blogspot.com/2006/05/sistani-removes-death-to-gays-fatwa.html


related sort of

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/06/14/fatwa-muslim.html


As I understand it Plane, the fatwa, while withdrawn from Sistani's website, remains in effect because he has not renounced it.

Iraqi gays are claiming partial success following the decision by Iraq’s  Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani (LEFT) and his aides to remove from his Web site a fatwa calling for the killing of homosexuals in the “worst, most severe way possible.”

The fatwa itself, however, remains in force, and has not been publicly repudiated by the grand ayatollah, who is the supreme religious authority for Iraq’s Shia Muslims.

The removal of the fatwa from the ayatollah’s Web site followed protests to Sistani by the London office of the Iraqi gay rights organization, Iraqi LGBT, which represents a clandestine network of lesbian and gay activists inside Iraq’s major cities, including Baghdad, Najaf, Karbala, Hilla, Duhok, and Basra.

Following two weeks of often tense negotiations with Iraqi LGBT—U.K., Sistani’s  office agreed to remove the fatwa calling for the murder of gay men—but unfortunately refused to remove the fatwa urging punishment for lesbianism.

Initially, Sistani’s office had demanded that Iraqi LGBT-U.K. delete its criticisms of Sistani from that group’s Web site and apologize to the grand ayatollah for questioning his religious authority. The gay Iraqi group refused, and instead issued a counter-demand that Sistani remove his death to gays fatwa from his Web site. Sistani’s representatives in London and Najaf finally agreed to drop the homophobic fatwa from his site—except for the section calling for the punishment of lesbians.

While welcome, the removal of the murderous fatwa from Sistani’s Web site is unlikely to affect the situation on the ground in Iraq, where death squads of the Badr Corps—now operating in police uniforms with the authorization of the Iraqi Interior Ministry—continue their lethal campaign of terror against gay people. Absent any public repudiation by Sistani of his fatwa and its formal withdrawal, the wave of organized intimidation, violence, and murder directed at Iraqi gays is likely to persist unabated.

(This reporter’s first story on the fallout out from the ayatollah’s fatwa, “Shia Death Squads Target Iraqi Gays,” published March 23 of this year, is available by clicking here,)

“We welcome the decision to remove the most murderously homophobic part of Sistani’s fatwa from his Web site,” gay Iraqi refugee Ali Hili, coordinator of Iraqi LGBT - UK, said from London. Ali is also Middle East Affairs spokesman for the British LGBT rights movement, OutRage!, which works closely with the Iraqi gay group.

But, Hili, said, “This decision does not go far enough. The fatwa has been removed from Sistani’s Web site only. It has not been revoked. We want the entire fatwa withdrawn, including the hateful denunciation calling for the punishment of lesbians. We urge Sistani to apologize and revoke, in public, his fatwa calling for the murder of homosexuals, and to issue a new fatwa condemning all vigilante violence, including vigilante attacks on gay and lesbian people. We believe that Sistani’s fatwa has encouraged and sanctioned the current wave of execution-style assassinations of lesbians and gay men. He owes gay Iraqis an apology. He owes all Iraqis an apology for setting straight Iraqis against gay Iraqis.”

According to the Iraqi LGBT group, “Endorsing the murder of other human beings is un-Islamic. Our Muslim faith is one of love, compassion, tolerance, and mercy. Hatred and prejudice have no legitimate place in our religion. Sistani’s encouragement of homophobic violence provokes negative views toward the Islamic faith and towards Muslim people.”

Hili added, “Iraqi LGBT-UK still holds Sistani personally responsible for the murder of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered Iraqis. He gives the killers theological sanction and encouragement.”


http://direland.typepad.com/direland/2006/05/iraq_sistanis_f.html

Effectively, the Sistani people seem to have removed the fatwa from the website in order to shut up the London group.  In reality (from what I can tell, and from what is still happening in Iraq, two and a half years after this occurred) it appears that the fatwa is in effect.  I have a couple more things to say but I think that they're more appropriate in my response to CU4, which I'll post after this.

fatman

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Re: It Makes Me Sick. Where's My Checkbook?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2008, 12:05:09 AM »
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2005/11/21/iran12072.htm

CU4, I think that I see what you're getting at.  While I'm not chomping at the bit for a war with Iran, it isn't because I think that they are a great country.  Personally, I think that they're a backward and intolerant nation.  My main objection to a war with Iran is that I remain unconvinced that we have the resources or the willpower of the populace to wage such a war.  And I tend to think that those things are not only important, but necessary for such an endeavor to be conducted successfully.

I'm not unaware of the fortunate position that I am in here (in the US).  We may clamor for equal marriage/union rights, but these are trivial matters compared to being dragged out of my home and shot in the middle of the night for being gay.  I am thankful to live in a nation where these things are an extremely rare and uncommon occurrence.  I am thankful to the men and women who have fought and died (and still do) so that I may conduct my life as I see fit without the threat of death.  I know that there are many nations out there where these things not only happen, but are condoned by their governments, and not only in Iran and Iraq, but in many African and Asian nations also.

But we're talking about Iraq here, and this is where I want to make my main points.  It was negligent, almost (if not) criminal for this Administration to depose a government that was largely secular in a hotbed of religious fundamentalism/extremism, and not have some sort of plan to reinstate that secularism and exclude the extremist elements.  As far as Bush and the war conduct goes, that is the most damning thing about the situation.  The fact that these religious cancers were allowed to grow unchecked and embed themselves within the government, and also to form a type of counter or co- government is ridiculous.

Money is pulled from my paycheck on a bi-weekly basis to support our operation in Iraq (among other things obviously).  That money goes to the Iraqi government for rebuilding efforts, a government that to my knowledge, has done absolutely nothing to curb the grotesque abuses of human rights that are occurring there under their noses.  I'm pretty sure that they're not blind to what is going on, if they are then they're flat fucking stupid and shouldn't be in a position of power anyway.  I say cut all aid to Iraq (and any other nation that we give aid to, that allows this kind of thing to happen under their oversight with no repercussion to the perpetrators) until they clean up their backyard.  It makes me absolutely sick to my stomach that my money goes to support a government that does nothing, and I mean nothing except watching placidly when it happens, about this.  I don't have the vocabulary to express how angry this makes me, Pooch probably would but I'm not so gifted.  My anger is not about the war or even Bush, but about our substantial aid to a nation that allows such a blatant abuse of basic human rights to go unchecked and unpunished.

I know you don't like homosexuality, I believe that you've stated before that you find it to be sick.  You are certainly entitled to that opinion, but this isn't even really about that either.  There are a lot of types of people that I don't like (cell-phone drivers for instance) but I'm not in favor of dragging them out of their bed in the dark of night and shooting them in the head.  Nor do I believe that the majority of Americans who believe homosexuality to be an abomination would support such a scenario (there are doubtless a couple of sick bastard who would, but I think they're so far to the fringe as to be negligible).

So I hope that I have your agreement that this situation in Iraq that I'm speaking of is flat wrong.  I don't think such an agreement on that would be a surprise.

Plane

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Re: It Makes Me Sick. Where's My Checkbook?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2008, 05:33:34 AM »

As I understand it Plane, the fatwa, while withdrawn from Sistani's website, remains in effect because he has not renounced it.



A fatwa has no force of law , it is just the opinion of a learned man, the force it carries depends on the respect due the man who composed it.

I am just surprised that an organisation of Gays , mostly in exile, has the clout to get this guy to back up a step at all.

Do they have a wider appeal ?

Do they have access to the public where thay can erode the respect this fatwa depends on?

fatman

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Re: It Makes Me Sick. Where's My Checkbook?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2008, 08:01:55 AM »
A fatwa has no force of law , it is just the opinion of a learned man, the force it carries depends on the respect due the man who composed it.

It is more than an opinion when the article I posted says: where death squads of the Badr Corps—now operating in police uniforms with the authorization of the Iraqi Interior Ministry—continue their lethal campaign of terror against gay people.  If BATF agents dragged you out of bed in the middle of the night, wearing uniforms that said BATF, and shot you because you didn't follow the dictates of Rev. Wright, would that not carry the force of law?

I'm not sure what the point is that you're trying to make Plane.

Do they have a wider appeal ?

Do they have access to the public where thay can erode the respect this fatwa depends on?


I honestly don't know.  But the fact is that while the fatwa was removed from the website, it is still in effect and still carried out, and there is no apology or checking of the extremism.  It is ironic to me that Sistani's first reaction was to demand that this group apologize for not "respecting his religious authority".  That's kind of like the Pope getting mad because a Hindu criticizes his stance on contraception.

Except, in that scenario, the Pope's words aren't getting anyone killed.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 08:11:58 AM by fatman »

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: It Makes Me Sick. Where's My Checkbook?
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2008, 09:33:24 AM »
CU4, I think that I see what you're getting at.

fatman my post about Iran executing gays was not intended as reasoning to go to war with iran

So I hope that I have your agreement that this situation in Iraq that
I'm speaking of is flat wrong.  I don't think such an agreement on that would be a surprise.


fatman as I have posted to you before, I have hired gays, my hairdresser is gay, i have a gay friend.

the situation with gays in iraq and iran is typical of the violent intolerance of the IslamoNazis
that want to rule the world
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: It Makes Me Sick. Where's My Checkbook?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2008, 10:23:48 AM »
The US does not have the power at the present moment to force Iran to be nice to gays or anyone else. Attempts to do this will weaken, not strengthen, the US and will not make anything easier for gays, intellectuals and dissidents in Iran. IN the same way, the US cannot make Georgia a best buddy.

We need to remember that a very wide ocean separates us from these places, and that none threaten us.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: It Makes Me Sick. Where's My Checkbook?
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2008, 04:44:19 PM »
A fatwa has no force of law , it is just the opinion of a learned man, the force it carries depends on the respect due the man who composed it.

It is more than an opinion when the article I posted says: where death squads of the Badr Corps—now operating in police uniforms with the authorization of the Iraqi Interior Ministry—continue their lethal campaign of terror against gay people.  If BATF agents dragged you out of bed in the middle of the night, wearing uniforms that said BATF, and shot you because you didn't follow the dictates of Rev. Wright, would that not carry the force of law?

I'm not sure what the point is that you're trying to make Plane.

Do they have a wider appeal ?

Do they have access to the public where thay can erode the respect this fatwa depends on?


I honestly don't know.  But the fact is that while the fatwa was removed from the website, it is still in effect and still carried out, and there is no apology or checking of the extremism.  It is ironic to me that Sistani's first reaction was to demand that this group apologize for not "respecting his religious authority".  That's kind of like the Pope getting mad because a Hindu criticizes his stance on contraception.

Except, in that scenario, the Pope's words aren't getting anyone killed.


It is a lot like that , the Fatwa lets the perpatrators feel rightious in what they do , the law notwistanding.

Will this old guy really change his opinion ?
Or will the respect he gets be reduced ?

He isn't elected or appointed , he doesn't depend on legislation for his authority , it is strictly a matter of how well he is respected.

So he can be appealed to ,
So the people he , speaks to can be appealed to.

This orgainasition has made him back up one step and I am surprised because I would not have expected them to have commanded much respect , perhaps they do after all.
Perhaps the side of reason has an appeal.