Author Topic: From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow  (Read 5608 times)

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MissusDe

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From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow
« on: September 29, 2008, 01:32:07 PM »
New York Post editorial, 9/29/08:

As Congress slogged toward an apparent financial-market rescue bill over the weekend, the time arrived for a closer look at the roots of the crisis.

Who were the culprits?

Many and varied.

But as Election Day grows ever nearer, the role of one candidate in particular stands out: that of Barack Obama.

As Stanley Kurtz details on the opposite page (story posted separately - MissusDe), Obama spent many years cultivating ties with, working with - and even funding - the very folks who pushed for the risky lending that underlies the current mess.

That is, "community organizer" groups like ACORN.

ACORN is especially noteworthy, not only because of its prominence in the drive to relax mortgage requirements, but also because of its shady tactics.

And its links to Obama.

Various ACORN chapters across the country, led by folks like Chicago's Madeline Talbott, staged in-your-face protests in bank lobbies and filed complaints meant to hold up mergers sought by targeted banking firms.

Unless the banks agreed to ACORN's terms - which many (understandably) did.

Talbott & Co. generally wanted them to ease down-payment requirements and ignore weak credit histories. And their intimidating tactics often necessitated police action, as at a '97 protest at Pulaski Bank & Trust in Arkansas, where activists blocked drive-through lanes.

The movement's biggest victory, of course, came when Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac began buying up the riskier loans - providing fresh incentive for banks to make even more of them.

No need to recount where all that led.

Meanwhile, Obama was right there by ACORN's side all along.

"I've been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career," he told the group last November.

Indeed, in the early '90s, Obama was recruited by Talbott herself to run training sessions for ACORN activists.

ACORN also got funding from two charities, the Woods Fund and the Joyce Foundation, when Obama served on their boards, and from the Chicago Annenberg Challenge - the radical "education reform" outfit Obama ran from '95 to '99.

Ironically, the group stood to be a key beneficiary of the goodies Democrats were loading into Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson's rescue plan - including one demand that 20 percent of any profits the feds make from reselling mortgage securities go to fund groups like ACORN.

Happily, that add-insult-to-injury bit appears to have been eliminated from the rescue bill - thanks essentially to Republican objections.

(In that context, it's worth noting that John McCain worked for years to rein in Fannie and Freddie. Had Democrats not blocked action, the whole mortgage mess might well have been avoided.)

Debate over the rescue plan begins in earnest today - and much disapprobation will be heaped on "Wall Street greed" as it proceeds.

Don't be misled, though.

In the end, from a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow.

With Barack Obama's help.

http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/print.php?url=http://www.nypost.com/seven/09292008/postopinion/editorials/the_meltdowns_acorn_131274.htm

Michael Tee

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Re: From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2008, 01:41:22 PM »
Let's see some real facts  here.  Out of the total $700 billion bail-out, how much is for bad ACORN loans?

That whole article's a crock a shit.  If anyone wants to point a finger, point it at McCain's economic adviser Phil Gramm, who advocated and pushed through the deregulation of the industry that made the whole greedfest possible. 

You also might want to look at where the money went?  What kind of money went to the executives of the failed banks, and what kind of money went to ACORN people?  The bank executives wound up with multi-million dollar golden parachutes and ACORN people didn't even get chump change.

Amianthus

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Re: From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2008, 01:55:36 PM »
Let's see some real facts  here.  Out of the total $700 billion bail-out, how much is for bad ACORN loans?

Considering that over half of that amount (more than $350B) is being reserved "just in case", yeah, it's bound to be less than half.

They think they only need a bit over $300B, but they are trying to get approval for a larger amount in case it's needed, so they won't have to go through the whole process again.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2008, 02:09:03 PM »
ACORN, as advocates for inner-city people, is a good organization. They helped us get street lights on my street and that lowered the burglar rate considerably. I suppose you can count on them to be advocates for poor people, but a HUGE number of these loans went to house flippers, and ACORN does not assist them at all. Typically, a house gets flipped twice and the first two make out like bandidos. Flipper number three usually has to do some fixing up to get the loan and then finds that finding tenants that actually pay the rent are hard to find and those that don't are harder than hell to evict, and leave behind a mess to clean up.

I'd say Phil Gramm is a better choice of someone to pummel and thrash on this issue. It was a LACK OF ADULT SUPERVISION that caused this mess. Banks are supposed to know how to evaluate people for loans, and I refuse to believe that the government has any way of forcing any bank to lend money to anyone they consider unreliable. McCain and Gramm were right in there with Juniorbush to deregulate.


"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2008, 02:16:07 PM »
a HUGE number of these loans went to house flippers, and ACORN does not assist them at all.

You have a source for that? I haven't read any analysis that makes that claim.

Typically, a house gets flipped twice and the first two make out like bandidos. Flipper number three usually has to do some fixing up to get the loan and then finds that finding tenants that actually pay the rent are hard to find and those that don't are harder than hell to evict, and leave behind a mess to clean up.

You must be using a different definition of "flipper" than I am. Flippers do not rent out houses under my definition. They buy a house - typically a foreclosure or one about to become a foreclosure - fix it up, then sell it for a more than they paid. They are not looking for tenants, they are looking to make money on their sweat equity.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Universe Prince

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Re: From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2008, 02:34:35 PM »

That whole article's a crock a shit.  If anyone wants to point a finger, point it at McCain's economic adviser Phil Gramm, who advocated and pushed through the deregulation of the industry that made the whole greedfest possible.


That may not be a crock, but it is at least a pile. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac did not buy up risky loans and strive so hard to provide low income housing because of deregulation. The notion that this crisis was caused by not enough government interference is completely asinine.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2008, 02:38:53 PM »
You must be using a different definition of "flipper" than I am. Flippers do not rent out houses under my definition. They buy a house - typically a foreclosure or one about to become a foreclosure - fix it up, then sell it for a more than they paid. They are not looking for tenants, they are looking to make money on their sweat equity.

Here in Miami, the first two flippers buy the house, sometimes for cash, and fix nothing. The third flipper generally has to borrow to buy, and then is the one who restores the house and sells it to the fourth and final seller, usually renting it out until a buyer can be found that can qualify. The first two flippers (occasionally there is one).

The first two flippers rarely own the house for more than a month, so it is the third and last flipper who puts in the alleged "sweat equity". Here in Miami this tends to be hiring illegals to do some on the job training and do most of the sweating.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

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Re: From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2008, 03:02:03 PM »
<<Considering that over half of that amount (more than $350B) is being reserved "just in case", yeah, it's bound to be less than half.

<<They think they only need a bit over $300B, but they are trying to get approval for a larger amount in case it's needed, so they won't have to go through the whole process again.>>

Considering that these same schmucks signed on to the Iraq War at a total estimated cost of $50 billion, I think you will be very lucky (a) if the mess CAN be cleaned up and (b) if the cleanup costs remain within the estimated ballpark of $700 billion.

Lanya

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Re: From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2008, 03:59:44 PM »
[...........]
Michael Abramowitz writes in The Washington Post about what a long way it is from Bush's frequent bragging "about the government's role in increasing homeownership rates and in decreasing government regulation of the housing market. . . .

"In 2004, for example, Bush told a group of carpenters in Phoenix that 'the housing industry is booming, which means more people own their home. And that's positive.'

"'We want more people owning their own home. There's nothing like saying this home is my home,' Bush said, adding: 'I've called on private-sector mortgage banks and banks to be more aggressive about lending money to first-time home buyers. And the response has been really good.'

"During an October 2004 speech to the National Association of Home Builders, Bush talked about his administration's record on encouraging homeownership -- including a proposal to allow first-time buyers to make no down payment. He cast the effort as part of an 'ownership society' that would also include health-care and retirement accounts."

And so on.
[..............]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/09/29/BL2008092901192_pf.html
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sirs

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Re: From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2008, 04:01:45 PM »
And..............?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

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Re: From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2008, 12:18:01 AM »
Quote

"'We want more people owning their own home. There's nothing like saying this home is my home,' Bush said, adding: 'I've called on private-sector mortgage banks and banks to be more aggressive about lending money to first-time home buyers. And the response has been really good.'

"During an October 2004 speech to the National Association of Home Builders, Bush talked about his administration's record on encouraging homeownership -- including a proposal to allow first-time buyers to make no down payment. He cast the effort as part of an 'ownership society' that would also include health-care and retirement accounts."


If this were merely a housing loan crisis, there might be a case to make with that, but it isn't, so there isn't.

The market is regulated. Pretending that it isn't is ridiculous. The notion that we are suffering from too little government regulation is bogus. The notion that we can somehow isolate the house market/Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac issues from the rest of the market and economy is false. And after all the effort the government, Democrats and Republicans, has put into the push to provide "affordable housing", to talk about this as if the only culprits were greedy capitalist bastards is simply an insult to anyone who has actually paid attention to what was going on.

But this nation is functioning true to form. Any economic crisis or minor downturn is treated like the next thing to the Great Depression, and everyone blames capitalists, capitalism, deregulation, and greedy businesses. Any history of government action is completely ignored as if somehow there are never any negative consequences for government intervention in the economy. Mention government intervention as part of the problem, and immediately the blinders are on and fingers are in ears and we say "la la la la la, not listening, la la la la la."

So quickly people say "See what those small government people do?" Do not confuse libertarianism with corporatism. The two are not the same. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are hardly bastions of libertarian ideals. These are not small government institutions. And the credit crisis they and other institutions were causing has been much criticized in libertarian circles for years and no one wanted to listen. But now all anyone wants to talk about is deregulation as if somehow that caused it all.

It's rather like suggesting than an alcoholic's problems have been caused by cutting out one bottle of beer a week. And of course, the solution given is to add in one bottle of whiskey a week. I'd point out that is not really going to fix the problem, but I can already hear the "la la la la la."
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Universe Prince

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Re: From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2008, 06:31:40 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/miron.bailout/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
         The current mess would never have occurred in the absence of ill-conceived federal policies. The federal government chartered Fannie Mae in 1938 and Freddie Mac in 1970; these two mortgage lending institutions are at the center of the crisis. The government implicitly promised these institutions that it would make good on their debts, so Fannie and Freddie took on huge amounts of excessive risk.

Worse, beginning in 1977 and even more in the 1990s and the early part of this century, Congress pushed mortgage lenders and Fannie/Freddie to expand subprime lending. The industry was happy to oblige, given the implicit promise of federal backing, and subprime lending soared.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122204078161261183.html?mod=special_page_campaign2008_mostpop
         - The Federal Reserve. The original sin of this crisis was easy money. For too long this decade, especially from 2003 to 2005, the Fed held interest rates below the level of expected inflation, thus creating a vast subsidy for debt that both households and financial firms exploited. The housing bubble was a result, along with its financial counterparts, the subprime loan and the mortgage SIV.

[...]

- Banking regulators. In the Beltway fable, bank supervision all but vanished in recent years. But the great irony is that the banks that made some of the worst mortgage investments are the most highly regulated. The Fed's regulators blessed, or overlooked, Citigroup's off-balance-sheet SIVs, while the SEC tolerated leverage of 30 or 40 to 1 by Lehman and Bear Stearns.

[...]

Meanwhile, the least regulated firms -- hedge funds and private-equity companies -- have had the fewest problems, or have folded up their mistakes with the least amount of trauma. All of this reaffirms the historical truth that regulators almost always discover financial excesses only after the fact.

[...]

- The Community Reinvestment Act. This 1977 law compels banks to make loans to poor borrowers who often cannot repay them. Banks that failed to make enough of these loans were often held hostage by activists when they next sought some regulatory approval.

Robert Litan, an economist at the Brookings Institution, told the Washington Post this year that banks "had to show they were making a conscious effort to make loans to subprime borrowers." The much-maligned Phil Gramm fought to limit these CRA requirements in the 1990s, albeit to little effect and much political jeering.

This is not a crisis of too little government. Any one who says it is, is ignorant, a liar or a fool.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Michael Tee

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Re: From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2008, 07:49:36 PM »
<<The current mess would never have occurred in the absence of ill-conceived federal policies. The federal government chartered Fannie Mae in 1938 and Freddie Mac in 1970 . . . >>

I get it.  The "ill-conceived federal policy chartered Fannie Mae in 1938" but the policy was so fatally  ill-conceived that it took a mere 70 years for the whole thing to go belly-up.

<< . . . these two mortgage lending institutions [Fannie and Freddie] are at the center of the crisis. >>

Centre of the crisis, left field of the crisis, third base of the crisis - - BFD.  This collapse is not even close to being limited to Fannie and Freddie.  The collapse involves them AND AIG AND Merrill Lynch AND Wachovia AND Bear Sterns and many more.  Blaming this all on two federal entities is like picking out two locusts in a swarm and claiming "THERE'S the problem, them two in the 2,398th and 2,399th positions in the 10,832rd line of the swarm." 

<<The government implicitly promised these institutions that it would make good on their debts, so Fannie and Freddie took on huge amounts of excessive risk.>>

Which Fannie was apparently able to hide for about 70 years and Freddie for only about half as long.  Anyone with half a brain has to be able to figure out that their problems are of much more recent origin.  Moreover this absurd theory completely ignores the identical fates of similar lenders and investors whose debts were NOT implicitly or explicitly guaranteed by the Federal Government.

<<Worse, beginning in 1977 and even more in the 1990s and the early part of this century, Congress pushed mortgage lenders and Fannie/Freddie to expand subprime lending. The industry was happy to oblige, given the implicit promise of federal backing, and subprime lending soared.>>

Congress PUSHED to have the restrictions loosened on sub-prime lending?  Seems to me there was some lobbying going on by the lenders themselves to be free of irksome Federal government restraints on their lending practices.  Besides, the absence of restraints does not shift the blame for the foolish decisions made by the lenders once their restraints were loosened.  Corporations remain profit-making institutions and their officers and directors remain responsible only to their shareholders for maximising corporate profits.  While some blame for the failure of tightly-regulated private corporations can be assigned both to the corporate management AND the regulators, in a loosely regulated business environment, blame for failure becomes obviously more concentrated on management than on the Federal regulators.  The failure of the credit-granting institutions in America today is a failure of the capitalist system, not a failure of government regulation.

<<http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122204078161261183.html?mod=special_page_campaign2008_mostpop
            - The Federal Reserve. The original sin of this crisis was easy money. For too long this decade, especially from 2003 to 2005, the Fed held interest rates below the level of expected inflation, thus creating a vast subsidy for debt that both households and financial firms exploited. The housing bubble was a result, along with its financial counterparts, the subprime loan and the mortgage SIV.>>

WRONG!  Wrongwrongwrongwrongwrong.  The loosening of credit-granting restrictions gives more freedom  of action to the lenders' managers, but it does not excuse faulty judgment on their part.  Failure to evaluate risk competently is the root cause of the crisis.  Because I CAN spend all my discretionary food budget on crystal meth does not mean I SHOULD spend all of my discretionary food budget on crystal meth.

[...]

<< Banking regulators. In the Beltway fable, bank supervision all but vanished in recent years. But the great irony is that the banks that made some of the worst mortgage investments are the most highly regulated. The Fed's regulators blessed, or overlooked, Citigroup's off-balance-sheet SIVs, while the SEC tolerated leverage of 30 or 40 to 1 by Lehman and Bear Stearns.>>

Ahh, now we're getting somewhere.  So the Republican administration and its administrators and regulators looked the other way while lenders ignored regulations that were still on the books?  Why am I not shocked that a Republican administration declined to protect the interests of ordinary Americans while the Fortune Top 500's lending and credit-granting institutions made out like bandits with their homes and life savings/

[...]

<<Meanwhile, the least regulated firms -- hedge funds and private-equity companies -- have had the fewest problems, or have folded up their mistakes with the least amount of trauma. >>

Oh no!  What a huge surprise!!  and who do you think are the primary investors in hedge funds?  What do you think a hedge fund does, anyway?  It bets both ways, so it's always covered.  It doesn't make spectacular profits, but it's safe and meant to be safe.  Hedge funds are for folks who don't NEED spectacular profits anyway because they are already wealthy.


<<All of this reaffirms the historical truth that regulators almost always discover financial excesses only after the fact.>>

LMFAO.  All it reaffirms is that when regulators don't regulate, businessmen will steal the farm and the whole fucking country if left alone long enough.

[...]

<<The Community Reinvestment Act. This 1977 law compels banks to make loans to poor borrowers who often cannot repay them. Banks that failed to make enough of these loans were often held hostage by activists when they next sought some regulatory approval.

<<Robert Litan, an economist at the Brookings Institution, told the Washington Post this year that banks "had to show they were making a conscious effort to make loans to subprime borrowers." The much-maligned Phil Gramm fought to limit these CRA requirements in the 1990s, albeit to little effect and much political jeering...>>

That is just total bullshit.  The act itself can be found here:http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/community/community/12c30.html

There is no requirement anywhere in the act that it make loans to subprime borrowers; in fact, "subprime borrowers" are not even mentioned in the act.  The key requirement of the act is that banks be assessed by federal regulators on a periodic basis:

"  the appropriate Federal financial supervisory agency shall - (1) assess the institution's record of meeting the credit needs of its entire community, including low- and moderate-income neighborhoods, consistent with the safe and sound operation of such institution"

<<This is not a crisis of too little government. Any one who says it is, is ignorant, a liar or a fool.>>

More fucking bullshit.  This is an obvious consequence of deregulation and almost every responsible commentator recognizes it as such.  Robert Litan, who is associated with the Kauffman Foundation, a so-called "think tank" associated with two primary objectives, the promotion of education and of entrepreneurship, obviously comes to the problems of the financial crisis with the POV of an entrepreneur and represents nothing more than the entrepreneurial reaction to increased government regulation.  Most of the crooks, thieves and liars who have been ripping off the American people since the days of the Keating Five are entrepreneurs, and as such are a part of the problem and not a part of the solution.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 07:55:47 PM by Michael Tee »

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2008, 02:12:13 AM »
The reason banks loaned to subprime borrowers was that they got a much higher interest rate. They were not worried about defaults, because they bundled these into derivatives and sold them to other banks.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: From a mighty ACORN an even mightier crisis did grow
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2008, 04:25:26 AM »
The reason banks loaned to subprime borrowers was that they got a much higher interest rate. They were not worried about defaults, because they bundled these into derivatives and sold them to other banks.

That doesn't sound right , what was the tipical intrest rate for such a loan?