How racism works

[BT]

I have a feeling that Palin could have done more to prevent her daughter from becoming pregnant than Obama could have prevented his mother from getting pregnant.

And Obama's grandparents, those bad parents who raised him, probably could have done a better job with their daughter, if your logic is to be consistent.

 

[Xavier_Onassis]

Observe how while Palin actually might have some power over her daughter, Obama had none over his grandparents.

[BT]

Observe that absent a chastity belt or proximity to a nunnery no one has any power over anyone else. They may have influence but they don't have power.

[Michael Tee]

<<Observe that absent a chastity belt or proximity to a nunnery no one has any power over anyone else. They may have influence but they don't have power.>>

IMHO, any parent who cares enough has it in herself or himself to be a good influence on his or her child.  To guide them, to form their character.  In keeping with the conservative mentality of totally denying all responsibility for anything that goes wrong on their watch (ideally blaming it on Bill Clinton) we see the phenomenon played out once again in the face of the most obvious evidence of parental failure.  The failure in this case is probably attributable either to Palin's lack of interest and attention to the problem ("too busy") or a complete lack of moral authority due to the inability to provide a good moral example to the kid.  I think it's relatively easy for someone to present a virtuous face to the outside world, very difficult to fool your own intimate family.

Children are molded and it is their parents who must take the initiative and do the molding, otherwise it will be left to others, peers and/or TV.  A parent can't mold anyone if she herself is not respected due to her own moral failings, which often only the intimate family really knows.  Similarly, a parent who does not invest the time and effort required to mold a child cannnot do it on the fly.

Palin is thus either lazy or inattentive to her parental duties or morally unfit to offer guidance to her own child, let alone the U.S.A.  In either case this does not bode well for the U.S.A. if she should, against all odds, win in November with McCain.

[BT]

So if we take your theory as fact, do you think Obama is damaged goods because not only was he birthed by an irresponsible teen mother but was then raised by her parents who obviously were too busy to impart the proper life skills to avoid an unwed pregnancy in the first place.

[Xavier_Onassis]

So if we take your theory as fact, do you think Obama is damaged goods because not only was he birthed by an irresponsible teen mother but was then raised by her parents who obviously were too busy to impart the proper life skills to avoid an unwed pregnancy in the first place.

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You are simply deliberately missing the point, and it would be futile to explain why and in which ways this is all wrong, because you already know.

[Michael Tee]

<<So if we take your theory as fact, do you think Obama is damaged goods because not only was he birthed by an irresponsible teen mother but was then raised by her parents who obviously were too busy to impart the proper life skills to avoid an unwed pregnancy in the first place.>>

I really was not following the saga of Obama's maternal lineage with any great attention thus far, but I assume from your question that Obama was born out of wedlock when his mum was a teenager, and was raised by her parents.  Accordingly:

You're obviously more than a little confused.  It would be consistent with my theory, in the absence of any special circumstances, to conclude that Obama's grandma was probably unfit as a mother.  Last time I checked, though, I don't believe Obama's grandma was running for President.  I would think Obama's mum has shown poor judgment and poor impulse control and lack of will-power and self-respect, and would not be a good candidate for President of the United States either.  Again, last time I checked, Obama's mum was not running for President, either.  The theories we are debating actually say little if anything about Obama.  They do, however, seem to say a lot about Sarah Palin, all of it, unfortunately, uniformly negative.

[BT]

So the parents influence the daughter , does it not follow that the son is influenced by the mother who in turn was influenced negatively by her parents.

I don't think it matters if one is running for president or not. They are either damaged goods or they aren't . so which is it?

[Plane]

Because then you'd be saying that Obama is lying to you. It was in his book. And the same people that should give a shit are the ones claiming that Palin isn't qualified because she has a daughter that is pregnant out of wedlock.

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I have a feeling that Palin could have done more to prevent her daughter from becoming pregnant than Obama could have prevented his mother from getting pregnant.

By the way, one is NOT  a bastard of one's parents are married at the moment of birth. The moment of conception would be idea, but the moment of birth will also do jus fine, according to the Church.

I beleive that the thesis was that BHO being black could not get away with any taint of scandal as a white canadate might.

The reality being that BHO is tightly tied to a real estate scandal and an upbringing that is nonstandard has not hurt him much , it is a sort of teflon.
Even his association with Bill Ayers has been of small consequence , do you think that a white canadate could survive that association?

[Plane]

What if McCain were a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

I hate charisma , it is shineola...

[Michael Tee]

<<So the parents influence the daughter , does it not follow that the son is influenced by the mother who in turn was influenced negatively by her parents.>>

I think, with all due respect, that you are stretching the chain of causation to the breaking point.  If you are trying to argue that Obama, as the son of an unwed teenage mother, must be damaged goods, I don't even want to get into it.  Really, BT, it's just too stupid to bother with.  Try to keep in mind that the issue I raised was the unfitness of Palin, the mother, not to what extent any such undesirable qualities could be passed on to the children of the unfit parent.

<<I don't think it matters if one is running for president or not. >>

Of course it matters.  Palin might well possess the qualities of an excellent 7-11 store clerk, notwithstanding her failure as a parent, but certainly would not be fit to be President of the U.S.A. if she can't even master a task which millions of women in all walks of life manage quite well, without the egregious failures that have plagued Palin.

<<They are either damaged goods or they aren't . so which is it?>>

What is this, Silly Hour?  Are you trying to argue that children born out of wedlock to teenagers are necessarily "damaged goods," whatever that means?  Sorry, BT, I'm not even going to start.  Can't think of a more ridiculous way to spend my time.  If you want to waste yours, please be my guest, but I can think of a lot better things with which to occupy myself than that kind of silliness.  Have fun with it, and be sure to let me know what your conclusions are.

[BT]

My conclusion is that if Palin is an unfit mother, her children suffer from that. Obama's mother was unfit as evidenced by her handing him over to her parents. And they were unfit because they neglected their child to the point that she felt it wise to become impregnated out of wedlock, surely Obama suffered from this also.

The question is how will it manifest itself.

[Michael Tee]

<<The question is how will it manifest itself. >>

The answer is, very minimally if at all.  There are other influences besides the maternal that have shaped the character of a mature family man like Obama.

Palin's failure as a mother was most apparent at the point in her daughter's life when she was still a teenager.  THAT was when she needed Palin's guidance, care and attention, and THAT was when Palin failed her miserably.  That's a direct indictment of Palin - - she's a fuck-up where it counts the most.  It's NOT an indictment of the daughter - - she makes a mistake at sixteen, it does not mean she will continue to make mistakes the rest of her life.  Hopefully she will learn from her mistakes, grow and develop, allow other more beneficial and helpful influences into her life and turn out OK.

Obama may very well ahve been affected by a lack of parental guidance at age 16.  Who the fuck knows?  The point is, since those years when he stood most in need of parental guidance, he has grown, developed, learned, and now he's way past the time when parental guidance is such a crucial need in his life.

The point you consistently miss is that the parental failure is primarily an indictment of the parent, not of the child.  Your "damaged goods" theory is highly speculative, unproven and frankly, just plain silly.  There's no evidence of it.  People learn and they grow.  With the passage of time, parental influence can fade and a responsible individual can often find other, better sources of guidance.

[BT]

Your "damaged goods" theory is highly speculative, unproven and frankly, just plain silly.  There's no evidence of it. 

Sure there is . Children of alcoholics are susceptible to addiction. Children of abusive parents are often abusive themselves.

[Plane]

My addition:

What if Obama's daughter were pregnant and out of wedlock?

<<They are either damaged goods or they aren't . so which is it?>>

What is this, Silly Hour?  Are you trying to argue that children born out of wedlock to teenagers are necessarily "damaged goods," whatever that means?  Sorry, BT, I'm not even going to start.  Can't think of a more ridiculous way to spend my time.  If you want to waste yours, please be my guest, but I can think of a lot better things with which to occupy myself than that kind of silliness.  Have fun with it, and be sure to let me know what your conclusions are.

Thus the origional question is answered , if Obama's daughters were pregnant early it would be no worse than his being an early Pregnancy himself in the public eye , and the public seems to not be bothered , the public is therefore proven to not be packed with racists eager to find silly excuses to dislike a black man.

Obama has been in a financial scandal every bit as serious as Whitewater or Keating five and it isn't exciteing the racism that would be expected .

Expected by people prejudiced to explain everything in terms of racism .