Author Topic: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.  (Read 6483 times)

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Cynthia

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2008, 09:49:13 PM »
How is calling presidents by initials or their names a liberal thing?

Obama is no no way even close to being a Socialist, let alone a Communist.



Hmmmm, how do you know that?

Michael Tee

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2008, 10:40:47 PM »
<<Hmmmm, how do you know that?>>

Easy.  He does not advocate Canadian-style single-payer health care.

Cynthia

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2008, 10:53:14 PM »
<<Hmmmm, how do you know that?>>

Easy.  He does not advocate Canadian-style single-payer health care.

Mtee,

Do you advocate Communism for America?

Michael Tee

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2008, 11:06:46 PM »
Mtee,

Do you advocate Communism for America?
================================================================
No, it would never work and there would be a pointless bloodbath.

Things would have to get really desperate and hopeless before Communism would have anything positive to offer us.   People need to understand, that despite the many ways that a Communist system is good for the people and particularly the working class, that there are a lot of sacrifices that we would have to make in order to accommodate Communism and also that Communism has that one central problem (Lord Acton's dictum) that has yet to be resolved.

Socialism, yes.  Our system of "socialized medicine" is ten thousand times better than your system.  I know that personally, from first-hand experience and from the experiences of many others.  We still have some kinks in our health-care system but overall, a lot better.  ("Ten thousand times" being obviously an exaggeration for effect)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008, 11:10:45 PM by Michael Tee »

crocat

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2008, 11:31:13 PM »
Mtee,

Do you advocate Communism for America?
================================================================
No, it would never work and there would be a pointless bloodbath.

Things would have to get really desperate and hopeless before Communism would have anything positive to offer us.   People need to understand, that despite the many ways that a Communist system is good for the people and particularly the working class, that there are a lot of sacrifices that we would have to make in order to accommodate Communism and also that Communism has that one central problem (Lord Acton's dictum) that has yet to be resolved.

Socialism, yes.  Our system of "socialized medicine" is ten thousand times better than your system.  I know that personally, from first-hand experience and from the experiences of many others.  We still have some kinks in our health-care system but overall, a lot better.  ("Ten thousand times" being obviously an exaggeration for effect)

I think that maybe we should consider all of the parts not just some of the parts.

Moscow is the #1 highest cost of living (2008)  Toronto is #54 New York (which is barely American) Detroit is #127 with most of the working states in the 130's. 

Michael Tee

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2008, 11:34:16 PM »
OK, I'm not opposed to a patchwork approach necessarily; if socialism produces superior health care, but capitalism produces superior food at cheaper prices, why not put the best system in where it's most effective?

sirs

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2008, 11:37:08 PM »
Our system of "socialized medicine" is ten thousand times better than your system.

LOL....that's why so many come to America for healthcare and procedures, than to Canada...because Canada's is soooo much better

I needed a good laugh.  NEWS Flash Tee, having every covered does NOT = Great Healthcare.  I can't count the # of personal stories I have as a Healthcare provider from folks who were receiving "healthcare" from other countries, Canada & Great Britian especially, and able to compare it to the care they get here.  Not even close.  I know of 1 patient who wasn't going to be scehduled for abdominal surgery for months, and the pain was so great, she took some bread, poured some red food dye on it, called the paramedics, and when they got there, she told them that "this" is what she threw up.  She was immediately taken in, and had the surgery she so desperately needed.  That was in England.  I had a patient who had a serious break of her femur, and was going to have to wait a minimum of 2 weeks, though was told it'd likely be more like a month, since it wasn't "emergent".  Her family loaded her up in a car, and brought her into the U.S., where she had the necessary surgery the next day.

You can KEEP your prescious Canadien healthcare, thank you very much


 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2008, 12:46:33 AM »
sirs, first off, I respect the insight that you have as a worker in the health-care system and the first-hand insights you get from that.

I hope you understand that not only do I interact with the health-care system here many times in the course of my working week, but also that as a patient and the husband of a patient who between the two   of us have had five surgeries, four under general anaesthetic.  This includes two major (4 hours plus) surgeries.  All of it free.  All but the last unmarred by unnecessary and inexcusable delays. 

<<I know of 1 patient who wasn't going to be scehduled for abdominal surgery for months, and the pain was so great, she took some bread, poured some red food dye on it, called the paramedics, and when they got there, she told them that "this" is what she threw up.  She was immediately taken in, and had the surgery she so desperately needed.  That was in England.>>

Nice.  Probably getting in ahead of some cancer patient playing by the rules whose cancer went into the lymphatic system during the delay forced on her by the line-jumper.  I wonder if your patient (a) took the time to work with her treating physician trying out various pain-management techniques; (b) took the trouble to get a second opinion as to the urgency of the situation or (c) decided to line-jump because she was too lazy to go the usual route of extra pain-management and second- or third-opinion consultations.

<<I had a patient who had a serious break of her femur, and was going to have to wait a minimum of 2 weeks, though was told it'd likely be more like a month, since it wasn't "emergent".>>

This one sounds very typical of most of the "long-wait" complaints I've encountered.  A non-life-threatening, "non-emergent" situation, no apparent reason why the leg can't be comfortably splinted with good skin care and pain management until surgery.  But the patient "can't wait" probably because she's better than all the other broken leg victims patiently waiting their turns.  She's got the cash and so she'll buy her way to the head of the line. 

There is no doubt that for spoiled, rich patients with a very healthy sense of entitlement, the U.S. system is the better one.

What you don't seem to get is that our system is not designed to provide the best treatment to the wealthiest fifth of the population.  For these folks, our system is worse becuase they have to wait longer when not in life-threatening or "emergent" situations.  Your system IS better at that.

OUR system is better because it gives everybody the same decent (but not the best, in terms of wait times) medical treatment, regardless of economic station in life.  And I can tell you from personal experience that in life-threatening, emergency situations, the free service available equally to all Canadians, rich and poor, is second to none.  It was fast, it was very effective.  Within well under two minutes of walking into the ER, I was triaged, put in a wheelchair and had an IV line run into my arm with whatever medication was required to prevent further damage to the heart muscle.  The nurses and doctors were fantastic.

I did not say our system was perfect.  There are delays in non-emergent situations, but the coverage is universal and it is free.  We are way, way, way ahead of you.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2008, 12:48:37 AM »
The Canadians who are happy with their system, which are most Canadians, do not come here. The same is true for Brits who come here.
The tales one hears from these discontented people are anecdotal and not typical.

If you ask the quarter million Americans who live in the UK what they like more about living there, they almost all will say "I like not having to take my checkbook to the doctor's".

People who travel abroad are rarely typical of the people who live in any country.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Cynthia

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2008, 12:52:34 AM »
Our system of "socialized medicine" is ten thousand times better than your system.

LOL....that's why so many come to America for healthcare and procedures, than to Canada...because Canada's is soooo much better

I needed a good laugh.  NEWS Flash Tee, having every covered does NOT = Great Healthcare.  I can't count the # of personal stories I have as a Healthcare provider from folks who were receiving "healthcare" from other countries, Canada & Great Britian especially, and able to compare it to the care they get here.  Not even close.  I know of 1 patient who wasn't going to be scehduled for abdominal surgery for months, and the pain was so great, she took some bread, poured some red food dye on it, called the paramedics, and when they got there, she told them that "this" is what she threw up.  She was immediately taken in, and had the surgery she so desperately needed.  That was in England.  I had a patient who had a serious break of her femur, and was going to have to wait a minimum of 2 weeks, though was told it'd likely be more like a month, since it wasn't "emergent".  Her family loaded her up in a car, and brought her into the U.S., where she had the necessary surgery the next day.

You can KEEP your prescious Canadien healthcare, thank you very much


 

Good post, Sirs. I might give you a hard time and make you into a grumpy ole boy...but you  do step up to the plate when it comes to what is right (most of the time).
;)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 12:54:17 AM by Cindy »

Cynthia

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2008, 12:59:04 AM »
Mtee,

Do you advocate Communism for America?
================================================================
No, it would never work and there would be a pointless bloodbath.

Things would have to get really desperate and hopeless before Communism would have anything positive to offer us.   People need to understand, that despite the many ways that a Communist system is good for the people and particularly the working class, that there are a lot of sacrifices that we would have to make in order to accommodate Communism and also that Communism has that one central problem (Lord Acton's dictum) that has yet to be resolved.

Socialism, yes.  Our system of "socialized medicine" is ten thousand times better than your system.  I know that personally, from first-hand experience and from the experiences of many others.  We still have some kinks in our health-care system but overall, a lot better.  ("Ten thousand times" being obviously an exaggeration for effect)

I believe it is a dangerous road down the hill of socialism.....blasting like an avalanche into communism. I don't care what folks say here. The possibility is too great for the opportunity. Violence comes too naturally when it comes to individuals who want desperately to have it "their  way".
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 01:01:03 AM by Cindy »

Michael Tee

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2008, 01:10:25 AM »
<<I believe it [socialism]  is a dangerous road down the hill of socialism.....blasting like an avalanche into communism.>>

Problem is, history provides no examples of a communist society arising out of a socialist system.  Although there are plenty of examples of a communist society arising out of a capitalist system.

Plane

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2008, 01:16:29 AM »
<<I believe it [socialism]  is a dangerous road down the hill of socialism.....blasting like an avalanche into communism.>>

Problem is, history provides no examples of a communist society arising out of a socialist system.  Although there are plenty of examples of a communist society arising out of a capitalist system.

Wasn't that the theroy under which the Union of Soviet Socialist Republicks operated?

Michael Tee

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2008, 01:22:20 AM »
<<Good post, Sirs. I might give you a hard time and make you into a grumpy ole boy...but you  do step up to the plate when it comes to what is right (most of the time).>>

the only users of the Canadian health-care system that sirs will ever see in his practice are those who left Canada for various reasons before they were cured of their ailments by the medical profession.  Since his professional patient contacts are limited to incurables and the not-yet-cured, there are bound to be a higher percentage of dissatisfied users and this is reflected in the statistically skewed sample that he sees.  It's unfortunate that sirs will never have any professional contact with the millions of Canadians of all walks of life from the richest to the poorest, who have passed through the Canadian health-care system, been fixed up at absolutely no cost to themselves and thus have no need of sirs' professional services.

Since satisfied Canadian health-care consumers are filtered out of sirs' experience, it's no wonder that he encounters so much negativity regarding our system.

sirs

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2008, 01:34:41 AM »
<<Good post, Sirs. I might give you a hard time and make you into a grumpy ole boy...but you  do step up to the plate when it comes to what is right (most of the time).>>

the only users of the Canadian health-care system that sirs will ever see in his practice are those who left Canada for various reasons before they were cured of their ailments by the medical profession. 

In other words, those who needed care, were without any other recourse, and with the excruciating pain not being managed, or the condition simply unbearable to wait for the government bureacracy to run its course, would come to America to get the needed treatment/surgery/CARE they they were not able to get elsewhere

But hey, at least they were covered, right??  That's what's important.  That, and that someone else pay for it


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle