Author Topic: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.  (Read 6600 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #75 on: October 12, 2008, 02:22:56 PM »
THat sounds like a clever ploy, if it is true. I was told that one must reach a mutual agreement with the hospital on a payment plan.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #76 on: October 12, 2008, 02:26:49 PM »
THat sounds like a clever ploy, if it is true. I was told that one must reach a mutual agreement with the hospital on a payment plan.

Hospitals that take county or state funding (nearly all of them) are limited in the punitive actions they can take against those without insurance, if they are to continue to receive said funding.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #77 on: October 12, 2008, 02:33:56 PM »
This means that state and/or country laws decide the limits they can put on the former patient. There is no inherent country-wide right to pay $5 a month on a $200,000 bill.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #78 on: October 12, 2008, 02:37:00 PM »
This means that state and/or country laws decide the limits they can put on the former patient. There is no inherent country-wide right to pay $5 a month on a $200,000 bill.

Many laws in various areas are similar. For the same reason that welfare laws are similar from state to state - because if they were inherently better for the poor in one location, they would soon be flooded with poor from other locations.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #79 on: October 12, 2008, 02:46:40 PM »

...because if they were inherently better for the poor in one location, they would soon be flooded with poor from other locations.

Perhaps. But the poor are often entirely unaware of the laws and there are many factors other than money that motivate people to move.

I agree that if Nevada were passing out $1000 bills on the courthouse steps to every poor jobless person, and this were shown on TV during COPS or Maury Povich, there would be stampede for Nevada.

Alaske would be more problematical: it's cold, and a long ways away, and now to drive there you need a passport.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

crocat

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #80 on: October 12, 2008, 04:42:37 PM »
All I can say about Canadian healthcare is that it is up to the Canadians. If were given the option of having it here, I imagine I would vote for it.

Canada being a democracy, I don't see why a majority of Canadians should not have the right to vote to have this insurance or not.

Crocat's aunt has the option of coming to the US or any other place for lasik surgery if she so desires.

I think that the doctor was looking after the patient's best interest by operating on one eye at a time. In this way no possibility of total blindness, which is a very serious thing, exists.
 

I think that you have gotten the wrong end of this thread.... my Aunt is in England and doing fine.  My debate has been about the fact that Michael's hypothesis was greatly flawed.  You just bailed his ass out with the omg two eyes may be blind.

I think that if I decide I need both eyes done at once I should get both eyes done at once.... the government is not my mother, the doctor is not my mother.

crocat

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #81 on: October 12, 2008, 04:45:56 PM »
Michael,   that is the point in a nutshell....

wasting money by taking a 60 minute procedure and  stretching it into two procedures and 9 hours.

You wouldn't need MORE freaking taxes....people would move through the system quicker in the long run and the money would be spent where it should be spent .... healthcare.

crocat

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #82 on: October 12, 2008, 04:50:51 PM »
I am not sure if any of you know but I work as a para-legal.   I see many medicare payments and liens.

I have seen people get a hospital bill for 32,000.00 and when medicare paid it settled for 2,300.00.   This happens over and over again.

Now we all pay a premium every month for our medicare benefits it is cheap but we pay on every paycheck until we reach 65 so we are in fact prepaying our coverage.

I do not have health insurance supplied by my job so I have a major medical policy.  It covers hospital and surgery.  My husband and I are in our 60's and it is $300.00 per month.  I think that is affordable.

Michael Tee

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #83 on: October 13, 2008, 12:01:40 AM »
<<My debate has been about the fact that Michael's hypothesis was greatly flawed.  You just bailed his ass out with the omg two eyes may be blind.>>

LOL.  You may be right.  You suckered me in with the explanation that the reasoning of the NH was related to "turns" and "scheduling" and my hyothesis was intended to encompass the stated reasons.

<<I think that if I decide I need both eyes done at once I should get both eyes done at once.... the government is not my mother, the doctor is not my mother.>>

Not if the government also has to pay for all your entitlements if you are blinded and give you the tax break that the blind are entitled to.  Then they have a right to minimize blindness across the board in order to spare themselves the expenses associated with dealing with it.

<<I am not sure if any of you know but I work as a para-legal.>>

It's permanently engraved in my memory.  Part of the "escape from Michigan" story.  It's particularly annoying to me because I haven't yet pulled off my own "escape from Ontario" story, which I feel is long overdue.

<<I have seen people get a hospital bill for 32,000.00 and when medicare paid it settled for 2,300.00.   This happens over and over again.>>

That is typical of a for-profit system.  Every bill is a gross over-bill.  You should see the financial statements of the hospital and the total executive compensation.  You'd be utterly amazed at what these greedy little bastards are raking in all at the expense of the sick and the dying.  Socialized medicine bills out at cost, there is no profit margin to feed.

crocat

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #84 on: October 13, 2008, 09:22:14 AM »
<<My debate has been about the fact that Michael's hypothesis was greatly flawed.  You just bailed his ass out with the omg two eyes may be blind.>>

LOL.  You may be right.  You suckered me in with the explanation that the reasoning of the NH was related to "turns" and "scheduling" and my hyothesis was intended to encompass the stated reasons.

<<I think that if I decide I need both eyes done at once I should get both eyes done at once.... the government is not my mother, the doctor is not my mother.>>

Not if the government also has to pay for all your entitlements if you are blinded and give you the tax break that the blind are entitled to.  Then they have a right to minimize blindness across the board in order to spare themselves the expenses associated with dealing with it.



"The definition of legally blind is that both eyes must have visual acuity of 20/200 or worse according to a standard Snellen Chart examination. Your ophthalmologist or optometrist can perform this test and certify your vision loss. There are more than tax consequences. You may qualify for disability, and social security benefits as well. Check with your state's department of health and human resources.
I hope this helps.
Richard Davis, MD"

Just to be clear here.... blind is not necessary to be in both eyes.   But here is my point, if they screw up one eye and the cataract makes you blind in the other eye... won't you still be drawing the system either way?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #85 on: October 13, 2008, 10:12:31 AM »

<<I think that if I decide I need both eyes done at once I should get both eyes done at once.... the government is not my mother, the doctor is not my mother.>>

----------------------------
While it is true that your doctor is not your mother, medicine is still not a commodity such as one can buy at Wallyworld. If you request breast enhancement for a twelve-year old, you will be and should be refused. It for some werid reason, you wished to have a finger or an ear removed, the doctor would turn you down. A doctor swears an oath to not do harm to the patient.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #86 on: October 13, 2008, 12:18:35 PM »
<<Just to be clear here.... blind is not necessary to be in both eyes.   But here is my point, if they screw up one eye and the cataract makes you blind in the other eye... won't you still be drawing the system either way?>>

Yeah, but you'd be drawing more on the system if one eye met the 20/200 test and the double surgery fucked them BOTH up.  Besides, once again XO rides in to the rescue and saves my ass - - the Hippocratic Oath prohibits the doctor from doing harm.  He can't do both at once since harm could result to two eyes instead of one.

Amianthus

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #87 on: October 13, 2008, 12:41:29 PM »
Yeah, but you'd be drawing more on the system if one eye met the 20/200 test and the double surgery fucked them BOTH up.&nbsp; Besides, once again XO rides in to the rescue and saves my ass - - the Hippocratic Oath prohibits the doctor from doing harm.&nbsp; He can't do both at once since harm could result to two eyes instead of one.

Stupid argument; if he can do harm to one eye, he shouldn't operate on either. Nearly all surgeries can "harm" the patient; the Hippocratic Oath is not a bar to surgery.

It is, however, standard procedure to perform the two cataract operations 4-8 weeks apart.

Quote
Treatment
How is a cataract treated?

[snip]

If you choose surgery, your eye care professional may refer you to a specialist to remove the cataract.

If you have cataracts in both eyes that require surgery, the surgery will be performed on each eye at separate times, usually four to eight weeks apart.
http://www.nei.nih.gov/health/cataract/cataract_facts.asp
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

crocat

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #88 on: October 13, 2008, 07:29:15 PM »
<<Just to be clear here.... blind is not necessary to be in both eyes.   But here is my point, if they screw up one eye and the cataract makes you blind in the other eye... won't you still be drawing the system either way?>>

Yeah, but you'd be drawing more on the system if one eye met the 20/200 test and the double surgery fucked them BOTH up.  Besides, once again XO rides in to the rescue and saves my ass - - the Hippocratic Oath prohibits the doctor from doing harm.  He can't do both at once since harm could result to two eyes instead of one.

HA  HA.... my husband had lasik surgery on both eyes.... in Canada... of course they screwed up both eyes....I think you guys need to understand that the oath means.... KNOWINGLY doing harm.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 07:42:01 PM by crocat »

Michael Tee

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Re: OH OH, don't forget to be politically correct.
« Reply #89 on: October 14, 2008, 11:39:42 AM »
<<Stupid argument; if he can do harm to one eye, he shouldn't operate on either.>>

Stupid rebuttal.  Only the omniscient physician would know before he begins what the end result will be.  That's why the risks are explained to the patient beforehand, and that's why you sign a waiver before the operation confirming that you were told of the risks and absolving the physician if anything goes wrong.

<<HA  HA.... my husband had lasik surgery on both eyes.... in Canada... of course they screwed up both eyes....>>

Nobody's got a monopoly on medical error, cro.  I'm sorry your husband's eyes were fucked up,  sorrier still that it was a Canadian doctor who fucked them up but most ophthalmologists, even Canadians, manage to get their patients through a Lasik procedure without fucking up anything.  Incidentally, if the Lasik were for purely cosmetic reasons, it was not covered under our OHIP (governmental health plan.)  So your husband was probably going to some for-profit clinic.

<<I think you guys need to understand that the oath means.... KNOWINGLY doing harm.>>

You must have a pretty elastic definition of "knowingly" - - if a doctor knows that it's safer to do one eye at a time, and chooses instead the risker alternative of both at once for no better reason than the patient's impatience, then IMHO, he's knowingly caused whatever harm resulted.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 11:44:53 AM by Michael Tee »