Author Topic: California Prop 8  (Read 2083 times)

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Seamus

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California Prop 8
« on: October 09, 2008, 08:52:59 PM »
Can someone who is FOR Proposition 8 and is a Californian please help me understand why we want to change our constitution to limit rights of some citizens, please?

Seamus

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Re: California Prop 8
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2008, 09:00:24 PM »
Okay...  Looks like there are no Californians here that can help me understand.  What about non-Californians?

BT

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Re: California Prop 8
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2008, 09:02:14 PM »
Prop 8 does not change the US Constitution.

Long time no see. seamus.


Seamus

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Re: California Prop 8
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2008, 09:05:16 PM »
No, it changes the State Constitution. 

And yeah...  This place raises my blood pressure...  I need to take it in moderation. :) :P

kimba1

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Re: California Prop 8
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2008, 09:11:40 PM »
I`m a californian but I`m not for it so i thought i shouldn`t step in.
but now that you opened the floodgates.
judging from the ads
prop 8 would protect churchs from losing thier tax exempt status since they do exclude gays.
pretty much it boils down to if gays get married all religions will be threatened
the ad I heard on   the radio stated along list of things that will happen
shame I was dozing when i heard it
as a conservative I think any religion that can`t handle 2 guys getting married ain`t tough enough for my concern.
looks pretty wimpy to me.

BT

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Re: California Prop 8
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2008, 09:15:04 PM »
What it does is enshrine the traditional definition of marriage into the state constitution. Depending on the verbiage it may or may not offer the option of civil unions.

Since marriage is the province of the states should they not legislatively define what it is?





Religious Dick

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Re: California Prop 8
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2008, 10:40:13 PM »
Well, I haven't lived in California for years, and I'm actually pretty ambivalent about gay marriage one way or another. But here's some interesting thoughts on the matter....

 http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/005244.html
I speak of civil, social man under law, and no other.
-Sir Edmund Burke

Seamus

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Re: California Prop 8
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2008, 12:07:59 AM »
Thanks for the replies, everyone... :)  I really appreciate the help in trying to understand this.

Basically, I think that the churches and religions have every right to believe that gay marriage is wrong, and to promote their beliefs to their congregations.  I also believe that those faithful SHOULD NOT condone the lifestyle.

What I am still having trouble with is the idea that we need to change our Constitution that affects ALL Californians, regardless of faith and non-faiths, to specifically limit someones rights.

Basically, I see it as, women and men are supposed to be the same, treated the same in the eyes of the law.  If a man can marry a woman, then a woman should be able to also.  And visa versa.   But even if I believed that it WAS wrong, that would be between me and my church, not for me to legislate for someone else.

Still, more input would be appreciated...

Seamus

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Re: California Prop 8
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2008, 12:12:30 AM »
Here's a thought!  Let me try to reword my question...

Under what circumstances do you feel it would be okay to change the State Constitution to limit a subclass of citizens rights?

BT

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Re: California Prop 8
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2008, 12:19:41 AM »
Quote
Under what circumstances do you feel it would be okay to change the State Constitution to limit a subclass of citizens rights?

State constitutions and by extension statutes limit the rights of subclasses all the time.

Drinking ages, driving ages, gun ownership and voting rights for felons.

How about medical treatment being forced on those sects who don't believe in it.

They  have also always had the right to define what it is they are regulating, whether it be motorbikes or marriages.




Seamus

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Re: California Prop 8
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2008, 11:24:01 AM »
True... But for the most part, the Constitution PROTECTS rights.

But, you didn't answer my question. :) When do YOU feel it's okay?  Do you think it's right that prostitution, or drinking at age 20, is against the law?  Why?

Thanks! :)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: California Prop 8
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2008, 11:32:42 AM »
Why vote for any amendment restricting anyone from doing anything that does not harm either yourself or them?

No one is proposing to make gay marriage mandatory.

If gay relationships are a true threat to society, they should arrest and jail all those guilty of gay cohabitation--send them to hetero reform camps, like they do in Cuba. Telling them they can diddle away all they wish, but cannot call themselves Man and Man or Wife and Wife is stupid.

If not, just let them alone. It will change nothing for you if Adam & Steve, your gay neighbors are married or can take advantage of a minor tax deduction.

The state getting involved in this is just meddling.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Seamus

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Re: California Prop 8
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2008, 11:50:23 AM »
That's my question!  :)  I'm wondering WHY...  it doesn't make sense to me, but I was hoping that someone here would be able to explain why we WOULD vote for any amendment that restricts a sub class...

kimba1

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Re: California Prop 8
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2008, 12:06:28 PM »
I can`t give you a good answer but I can point out the very idea of gay marraige( not gay union )is to a very large voting population a very unpopular idea.
most folks will vote for gay rights but the deal breaker will be gay marraige.
everybody says they have gay friends,but rarely will those people say they are for gay marraige.
note prop.9 is in california a state with a very large gay population .
gay marraige,abortion
these are the subject that will kill a political career


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: California Prop 8
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2008, 12:14:07 PM »
That's my question!  Smiley  I'm wondering WHY...  it doesn't make sense to me, but I was hoping that someone here would be able to explain why we WOULD vote for any amendment that restricts a sub class...

=========================================================
I donlt think it actually makes sense to any thinking person, but tpo some people, gays are an abomination to God, and actually, according to the Bible, should be stoned to death. Of course, once gays realize that overt gay activity will get them killed, they limit themselves to covert activity.

The Bible-thumpers cannot get enough votes to get sodomy aka "cornholing" declared illegal as they one did. They cannot get gays arrested for living together, either, so they tell the rest of the Christians that the least they can do is to prevent the gays from getting married. Of course, no one is forcing any preacher to marry gays, but when these 'Christians' think about a couple of gay guys or lesbians putting on fancy duds and having their own weddings with cake and champagne and dancing and throwing bouquets and all, it just sorta spoils it for them, like finding a cockroach in a bowl of shrimp bisque you just ate.

So they vote to preserve wha thay call the "sanctity of marriage". It's a good way to get the morons, the rubes, the hicks and the yokels to the polls, where they will be able to exercise their keen logic in choosing a president and other officials.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."