Author Topic: TIME Magazine: Financial Woes May Force U.S. Out of Iraq  (Read 1268 times)

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Michael Tee

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TIME Magazine: Financial Woes May Force U.S. Out of Iraq
« on: October 17, 2008, 11:39:46 AM »

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1851258,00.html

<<Then, there's the financial crisis and looming global recession that will inevitably impose a far greater austerity on Washington. America's military deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan are expected to cost close to $200 billion for 2008 alone, and maintaining that commitment will become considerably more burdensome as Washington is forced to funnel many hundreds of billions of dollars into simply averting financial collapse. The looming global economic recession will further slash tax revenues available to the U.S. government.
<<A year ago, the Congressional Budget Office estimated the cost of funding the Iraq and Afghanistan wars from 2001-2017 to be around $2 trillion, or more — factoring in some $705 billion in interest payments in recognition of the fact that the war is being funded with borrowed money. (Nations typically increase taxes in order to finance protracted military conflicts; the Bush Administration, having cut taxes, has had to rely on the credit of others to wage its wars.) The current credit crisis and economic slowdown will considerably raise the pressure on the U.S. national debt, which had already grown from around $6 trillion in 2001 to near $10 trillion today.
<<Financial pressure is not, in itself, sufficiently strong right now to hasten a pullout from Iraq. But the fact that it coincides with a gloomy intelligence assessment of that country's political prospects, growing demands for U.S. reinforcements in Afghanistan, and the elected Iraqi government's insistence on a withdrawal deadline, suggests that the end of the U.S. mission in Iraq may be coming into view — and that its terms may fall short of victory as defined by the war's authors.>>

The war in Iraq was a major transgression of international law and a moral, political and strategic disaster for the U.S.  Talk of "turning the tide" was offensive, in that it was the bad guys boasting that they would get away with their violations of law and morality and would "win" the war, which would have been a huge setback for the cause of international law.  NOBODY should be allowed to cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in a war of unprovoked aggression and get away with it.

It's funny, but every time somebody, whether it's Adolf Hitler or George W. Bush, thinks that might makes right, that they can violate international law with complete impunity because of their unrivaled military strength, they appear for a time to be winning.  People who believe in international law and justice are thrown into despair - - the Rule of the Gun is superseding the Rule of Law, the torturers and murderers are winning - - and yet each time, from the ruins of Berlin to the rooftops of Saigon and now to the back alleys of Baghdad, we are going to see, that for different reasons each time, the aggressor comes to grief.  He loses.  The United States, in this case, is at the brink of fiscal ruin and deservedly so.  Almost makes you think there might be a God after all.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: TIME Magazine: Financial Woes May Force U.S. Out of Iraq
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2008, 11:48:00 AM »
who it may force out is Iran.

Iran is suffering big time with 30% inflation and the free fall of oil.



"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: TIME Magazine: Financial Woes May Force U.S. Out of Iraq
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2008, 12:07:04 PM »
who it may force out is Iran.

Iran is suffering big time with 30% inflation and the free fall of oil.

====================================================================
Yeah, Iran is suffering inflation because the price of oil went up so fast. Now it is going down. This might tend to have an opposite effect, don't you think?

What do you think Iran will do?



Pull up stakes and move to some other continent?
Look. Iran will always be bigger in population and area to Iraq. It will always have a sympathetic Shiite majority, as will Iraq,  and it will always be next door.

Iranian influence in Iraq is like US influence in Canada or Mexico. It's pretty much permanent. It's not a question of IF Iran will have an influence. It's a question of WHEN.


The best the US can hope for is that distress in Iran will cause the Iranians to demand more competence from their leaders. The Ayatollahs are incompetent fanatics. The people are less fanatic, and better educated every day.

It is unlikely, however, that Iranians will ever become anti-Palestinian or pro-US govt unless the US govt changes its policies drastically.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: TIME Magazine: Financial Woes May Force U.S. Out of Iraq
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2008, 01:25:45 PM »
"Iranian influence in Iraq is like US influence in Canada or Mexico"

Since when did the US have an extremely bloody and nasty war
with Mexico and Canada in the the last twenty years?

Tens of millions of Iraqis HATE Iran for this war and for being Persian.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

_JS

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Re: TIME Magazine: Financial Woes May Force U.S. Out of Iraq
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2008, 01:41:59 PM »
When's that imminent war with Iran taking place?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: TIME Magazine: Financial Woes May Force U.S. Out of Iraq
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2008, 02:29:07 PM »
Tens of millions of Iraqis HATE Iran for this war and for being Persian.

This is grossly UNTRUE and seriously exaggerated.


There are only 22 million Iraqis, and at least half a million live in Iran. Many major Shiite religious sites are in Iraq, and they hate Iran like the Italian-Americans hate Rome, which is to say not at all.

More than half of all Iraqis are Shia, as are most Iranians. They are natural allies. Over the past 6000 years, all of Iran has been ruled by Iraqis, and all of Iraq has been ruled by Persians.

There  are  sizable Assyrian, Kurdish and Turkmen minorities in both countries as well.   Saddam and Kholmeini are blamed for the ghastly Iran-Iraq War : both governments were repressive and drafted soldiers by force.  An Iraqi is more likely to dislike an American than an Iraqi       

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

_JS

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Re: TIME Magazine: Financial Woes May Force U.S. Out of Iraq
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2008, 02:53:31 PM »
There is a distrust of Arabs in Iran...I would not call it "hate." It is an historically developed distrust that comes from the arrogance of the Arab-Muslim invasion of Persia as well as the arrogance of the Persian Empire. For example, the Arabs like to say that they brought monotheism to Persia...but reality is that the Persians had a monotheistic religion long before any Muslim invasion (in fact before they conquered the Jews or any Christian missionaries came). To this day the Persians of Iran celebrate Zoarastrian holidays and festivals despite attempts by the Islamic Theocracy to suppress or alter them. They are simply too popular and ingrained into the culture despite the fact that there are very few practicing Zoarastrians remaining.

So there is some leftover animosity, but hardly hatred to the point of racism. It does not amount to what we saw here with treatment of African-Americans.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Michael Tee

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Re: TIME Magazine: Financial Woes May Force U.S. Out of Iraq
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2008, 03:18:54 PM »
I'd keep in mind the simple fact that Iranian involvement in Iraq is low-tech and low-cost, American involvement hi-tech and hi-cost.  So the financial crisis is gonna hit the American effort in Iraq a lot harder than the Iranians.  Once the U.S. forces are deprived or limited in the use of their Kill-From-A-Great-Distance equipment and are gonna have to go mano-a-mano with the Iraqi Resistance, it ain't gonna be pretty.  My guess is that they'll pull out before they increase their own body count significantly.

Hatred of the "Persians" appears to be limited to a minority of the Shi'ites who for religious sectarian and even family or tribal reasons are squabbling with both Iran and their own "Persians" (Iraqis with close ties to Iranian religious leaders) and of course from the Sunni ex-Baathists now being armed by the U.S.  It's a real factor, one that you would think for their own good both the Sunni and the "Persians" would be working to close the gap on.  There's a problem and of course it lends itself perfectly to the old U.S.-British tactics of "divide and conquer" but it's for the locals to resolve themselves.  They obviously need to unite to drive out the Americans, but if they can't manage it, then fuck 'em, they deserve to be occupied and raped for their natural resources.  God helps those who help themselves.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: TIME Magazine: Financial Woes May Force U.S. Out of Iraq
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2008, 08:00:19 PM »
"When's that imminent war with Iran taking place?"

1998: When is the imminent terror attack on the US taking place?
1999: When is the imminent terror attack on the US taking place?
2000: When is the imminent terror attack on the US taking place?
2001: ANY QUESTIONS?





"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: TIME Magazine: Financial Woes May Force U.S. Out of Iraq
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2008, 09:16:05 PM »
Here is a list of all the Iraqis involved in 9-1:
1.

Here is another list of all Iranians involved in 9-11:
1.

And yet another list of all the Shiites involved.

1.

=========================================================================
We might as well arrest YOU for Charles Manson's crimes.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: TIME Magazine: Financial Woes May Force U.S. Out of Iraq
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2008, 09:56:11 PM »
Here is a list of all the Iraqis involved in 9-1:
1.
Here is another list of all Iranians involved in 9-11:
1.
And yet another list of all the Shiites involved.1.



HERE IS THE LIST OF THE TIMES I HAVE SAID OR IMPLIED IRAQIS WERE INVOLVED IN 9/11:

0





"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987