We're fucked

[Cynthia]

We are in a war for years to come and it's not all going to be about finding and killing terrorists. We are in an economics hell hole because of this war. That's scary.

I'm not sure the two factors are related.

Please expand your thoughts on this.

A war of economics because of the war in Iraq.

The cost of the war could have been avoided if the money was spent on necessary equipment and man power, for that matter ahead of time. So, the war will be fought in terms of economics, as I have heard.

Have you a different viewpoint on this, BT?
I'll hear ya out---if ya do?

[Xavier_Onassis]

I'm not sure the two factors are related.

Please expand your thoughts on this.


=====================================
The war in Iraq has cost and is costing $10 billion dollars a month. The American people are not being taxed to pay for this. The theory at the beginning of the war was that Iraq could pay for their invasion and the installation of a US-approved democracy out of their oil revenues, but this did not happen and It is being paid for by borrowing money from the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese. Interest must be paid on the loan.

If you were to charge an amount equivalent to one half your salary each and every month for six years to your credit cards, how long would it take before it became impossible for you to pay for your necessities?

It's a no-brainer. Paying for this expensive and needless war is at the root of the economic dilemma. No one trusts the US anymore, because we elected a dolt to be the most powerful man on the planet. No one trusts him, no one trusts the US, banks will not lend, businesses cannot operate without loans, and of course, house prices could not continue rising forever.

[Cynthia]

I'm not sure the two factors are related.

Please expand your thoughts on this.


=====================================
The war in Iraq has cost and is costing $10 billion dollars a month. The American people are not being taxed to pay for this. The theory at the beginning of the war was that Iraq could pay for their invasion and the installation of a US-approved democracy out of their oil revenues, but this did not happen and It is being paid for by borrowing money from the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese. Interest must be paid on the loan.

If you were to charge an amount equivalent to one half your salary each and every month for six years to your credit cards, how long would it take before it became impossible for you to pay for your necessities?

It's a no-brainer. Paying for this expensive and needless war is at the root of the economic dilemma. No one trusts the US anymore, because we elected a dolt to be the most powerful man on the planet. No one trusts him, no one trusts the US, banks will not lend, businesses cannot operate without loans, and of course, house prices could not continue rising forever.

ditto.

especially the last paragraph!!

[Plane]

When you sell a used car it is actually worth esxactly no more than a buyer is willing to pay , but if you had a buyer who was willing to pay a whole lot would you refuse him?

I would demand payment in cash, and I would examine the cash very carefully.
Accepting overpayment is not the problem. It is offering it that causes the problem.
-------------
Reminds me of Babe Ruth being asked by the press how he felt about makeing more than the President  , he said
 " I had a better year then the President ."

I do not consider Babe Ruth to be an expert on economics. Nearly everyone THINKS they are worth as much or more than you pay them.

=============================

I remember President Carter going to Poland with a poorly qualified translator  , on that occasion it would have been worthwile to have paid a bit more for the sake of quality, If you were asked to perform translation on such an important occasion , what should that be worth?

I do not think that this person was chosen because they agreed to work for less. I think it was someone who was educated in the US, ad had a good knowledge of Poland, but whose Polish was learned from parents and grandparents who were essentially hicks who left Poland in the 1930's

Paying this person more would not have improved their performance. Once this problem was reported, Carter got another translator. No harm was done. The Republicans had it in for Carter and exaggerated everything about him that could be shown as a negative. They did the same to Clinton. It is what they do: they would rather shackle our presidents and denigrate them than allow the country to progress.

Juniorbush certainly needed better advice when he decided to invade Iraq. Of course, it is pretty clear that he ordered advice that could be used to justify the invasion. But paying the Neocons more would not have improved the quality of their advice.

Offering more can help attract the better , in reality almost everything is in constant auction , big leage ball players are an excellent example of this , very skilled players get very high pay , notpaying them in purportion to their contribution would be cheating them , but you might argue that the groundskeepers are highly critical to playing a good game and janitors are critical to the crouds enjoyment of the game , yet groundskeepers and janitors don't have a hope of drawing the pay of a pitcher or placekicker in spite of their importance. The diffrence being how hard to find the skill is.


You do remind me of the fan who yelled at the highly payed player who erred, "For another Million would you CATCH the ball?!!!!"

[sirs]

The war in Iraq has cost and is costing $10 billion dollars a month. The American people are not being taxed to pay for this. The theory at the beginning of the war was that Iraq could pay for their invasion and the installation of a US-approved democracy out of their oil revenues, but this did not happen and It is being paid for by borrowing money from the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese. Interest must be paid on the loan.
...
It's a no-brainer. Paying for this expensive and needless war is at the root of the economic dilemma. No one trusts the US anymore, because we elected a dolt to be the most powerful man on the planet. No one trusts him, no one trusts the US, banks will not lend, businesses cannot operate without loans, and of course, house prices could not continue rising forever.

ditto.   especially the last paragraph!!

This of course is based on the OPINION that the war was "needless" and at the "root of the economic delimma", and that the President is a supposed "dolt".  I'm afraid I can provide countless examples of facts, timelines, & common sense that would provide an alternate position on both.

So, no ditto from me

[Xavier_Onassis]

I'm afraid I can provide countless examples of facts, timelines, & common sense that would provide an alternate position on both.


Indeed, we should all be afraid of twisted logic that spouts such nonsense. Fighting wars on credit beggars the nations that fight them.

[Plane]

I'm afraid I can provide countless examples of facts, timelines, & common sense that would provide an alternate position on both.


Indeed, we should all be afraid of twisted logic that spouts such nonsense. Fighting wars on credit beggars the nations that fight them.

Oh?

WWII was more expensive by an order of magnitude , but I have recently been told that the US had a more robust economy in the wake of that war than this one.

[sirs]

I'm afraid I can provide countless examples of facts, timelines, & common sense that would provide an alternate position on both.

Indeed, we should all be afraid of twisted logic that spouts such nonsense. Fighting wars on credit beggars the nations that fight them.

Wasn't what would have been provided, but I'm sure whatever provided would have been properly twisted by the anti-war and/or anti Bush Nazis in order to completely skew the points & conclusions being made.  SOP

[BT]

I'm not seeing the war as the cause for the bursting of the housing bubble nor do i see it as the cause for shoddy paper being sold on Wall Street.

The war is financed by selling futures in tax receipts to those who believe that a good safe investment.

The housing market and the trading in sub primes was a riskier investment.


I don't believe XO nor Cindy have made their case, that the economic collapse is related to the war.

In fact a case could be made that the war forestalled the collapse by pumping billions into the economy on a monthly basis.

[Xavier_Onassis]

WWII was more expensive by an order of magnitude , but I have recently been told that the US had a more robust economy in the wake of that war than this one.

=================
WWII was followed by a tremendous demand for all manner of products that had been destroyed by the war in Europe and Japan and many, many other places. This war is not followed by a tremendous market anywhere.

There was a pretty serious economic crisis after WWII, by the way. Truman kept thousands of troops on bases because there were no jobs for them at home, and would not be until the industries could be retooled for civilian products. My uncle Wyatt spent two years in Hawaii just sitting around writing letters to every Congressman and Senator to let them come home.

I might well be that whoever told you this, told you wrong.

[hnumpah]

WWII was more expensive by an order of magnitude , but I have recently been told that the US had a more robust economy in the wake of that war than this one.

So we should end this one and get it over with so our economy can recover?

[BT]

So we should end this one and get it over with so our economy can recover?

I believe XO staed WWII and the economy were not related as the economy had not fuly recovered for nearly two years after it was over.

Perhaps the absence of war prolonged the recovery period because govt spending was cut back.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I believe XO stated WWII and the economy were not related as the economy had not fully recovered for nearly two years after it was over.

Perhaps the absence of war prolonged the recovery period because govt spending was cut back.
=====================================================

In the last years of WWII, the government was damned near broke. The government commandeered the Iwo Jima flag raisers and paraded them all over the country in a drive to sell War Bonds. The government had no money to spend.

[Cynthia]

The war in Iraq has cost and is costing $10 billion dollars a month. The American people are not being taxed to pay for this. The theory at the beginning of the war was that Iraq could pay for their invasion and the installation of a US-approved democracy out of their oil revenues, but this did not happen and It is being paid for by borrowing money from the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese. Interest must be paid on the loan.
...
It's a no-brainer. Paying for this expensive and needless war is at the root of the economic dilemma. No one trusts the US anymore, because we elected a dolt to be the most powerful man on the planet. No one trusts him, no one trusts the US, banks will not lend, businesses cannot operate without loans, and of course, house prices could not continue rising forever.

ditto.   especially the last paragraph!!

This of course is based on the OPINION that the war was "needless" and at the "root of the economic delimma", and that the President is a supposed "dolt".  I'm afraid I can provide countless examples of facts, timelines, & common sense that would provide an alternate position on both.

So, no ditto from me

Ok, Sirs, can you show me at least five of your countless?

[Cynthia]

"The war is financed by selling futures in tax receipts to those who believe that a good safe investment.


Well, then call off the dogs! We have a reason for war!

I never said that the war was the recent cause for the housing crisis or current problems.

I stated that the war cost way too much and that could have been avoided if Bush had not listened to his grand advisers.