Author Topic: Another Republican that doesn't get it  (Read 17028 times)

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sirs

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Re: Another Republican that doesn't get it
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2006, 03:11:46 AM »
Quote
It's what put them in power, in the 1st place

The core values of Lincoln?  Coolidge?  Hoover?  Ike?  Nixon?  Reagan?  Bush and Bush  Lot of spectrum covered .  Whose core values are we talking about?

Conservatism, sprinkled with some Pragmatism.  Fairly narrow, and easy to follow
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Another Republican that doesn't get it
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2006, 09:48:26 AM »
Conservatism, sprinkled with some Pragmatism.  Fairly narrow, and easy to follow

======================================================
Juniorbush is anything BUT conservative.

He's not very pragmatic. either.
========================================================
The easiest thing to follow in GOP politics is the trail of slime that flows from the lobbyists to the Republican candidates. The Democrats are also guilty of this, but to a much lesser degree.

That zillion dollar bridge in Alaska is only the most obvious example. In the end, the Republican Congress voted to give Alaska the money for the useless bridge, but without stipulating that it had to be pissed away on precisely that project.

The basic message of the GOP is that government is not much good fpor anything, and therefore should not be called on to do anything, except to defend the nation and maybe deliver the mail..

Strange how the GOP feels that the military should not be privitized as well...

The message to the voters is that electing the GOP to do anything pretty much guarantees that it will be done poorly, with vampires encharged with the blood banks and foxes in charged with the chicken coops whenever possible. Iyt is foolish to believe that anyone who believes in the inherent incompetence of their own trade should be entrusted with anything.

The US was not safe on 9-11, and the fiasco in Iraq has not made it safer.

What do you suppose the Israeli destruction of Lebanon might cost us taxpayers? It has to be a guess, because the total will be hidden in a snarl of red tape and a cloud of secrecy.

Republicans: Useless since Theodore Roosevelt.(Who quit the party, by the way.)
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Another Republican that doesn't get it
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2006, 11:07:51 AM »
Juniorbush is anything BUT conservative.

D'uh.  The folks on the right have been saying that since the get go.  It's been the rabid left trying to claim he's some far RW Conservative ideologue

He's not very pragmatic. either.

And obviously, that claim couldn't be further from the truth
« Last Edit: November 14, 2006, 11:42:56 AM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Amianthus

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Re: Another Republican that doesn't get it
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2006, 11:31:43 AM »
Juniorbush is anything BUT conservative.

Many of us realized that - even before he elected in 2000 - and said so. That doesn't mean his opponent was automatically a better choice.

Republicans: Useless since Theodore Roosevelt.(Who quit the party, by the way.)

Interestingly enough, Teddy rejoined the Republicans.

And George Wallace never left the Democrats.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: Another Republican that doesn't get it
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2006, 11:42:09 AM »
Republicans: Useless since Theodore Roosevelt.(Who quit the party, by the way.)

Interestingly enough, Teddy rejoined the Republicans.

And George Wallace never left the Democrats.


D'OH ..... Ami with another uppercut on the chin       8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: Another Republican that doesn't get it
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2006, 11:49:14 AM »
Bt gives two statements that are spot on.

Quote
My quibble is that in a representative government, once elected we should let these Representatives do their job as their conscience dictates. And part of that job is to organize the caucus for maximum effectiveness. This is an internal deliberation. And I'm not so sure voters have the right nor the duty to micromanage those affairs. That is not to say constituent input isn't welcome, it is to say i don't see where they get to demand who is chosen.

Emphasis mine.

And:

Quote
The core values of Lincoln?

Coolidge?

Hoover?

Ike?

Nixon?

Reagan?

Bush

and

Bush

Lot of spectrum covered .

Whose core values are we talking about?

In fairness Sirs, you are looking for a simple answer to a question that requires a complex view. From Bt's first statement and especially the sentence I emphasized, there is an important lesson that cost the Republicans dearly in the recent election. The evangelical voters do seem to have a sense of entitlement that they are somehow given the right to govern by proxy through their candidates. As you know, it does not work that way. It will always lead to disappointment, especially when you have a President who drops in popularity and is occasionally at odds with his own party.

The second issue is that not all Republicans have the same core values. What you seem to desire is a small tent of Pat Buchanan-like domestic policies, but the truth is that not all "conservatives" believe what you believe. What Bt properly points out is that Republicans are very different as we can see from Reagan to Bush the Elder to Bush the Lesser.

Making a comment like: "Conservatism, sprinkled with some Pragmatism.  Fairly narrow, and easy to follow" is meaningless. A Republican from Alaska is going to want/require Federal money. A Republican from the South is going to focus on more evangelical values whereas a California Republican might get away with focusing more on balancing the budget. It might not even be a regional difference, but could be a simple philosophical difference. "Conservatism, sprinkled with some Pragmatism.  Fairly narrow, and easy to follow" is nothing more than an ill-defined slogan. And as was stated earlier, what will you do, purge the party of those who don't believe?

In the meantime, you have a party leader in President Bush, whether you like it or not.
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_JS

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Re: Another Republican that doesn't get it
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2006, 11:54:20 AM »
Quote
And George Wallace never left the Democrats.

So?

Edward Jackson was always a Republican.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: Another Republican that doesn't get it
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2006, 12:00:16 PM »
Making a comment like: "Conservatism, sprinkled with some Pragmatism.  Fairly narrow, and easy to follow" is meaningless.  Fairly narrow, and easy to follow" is nothing more than an ill-defined slogan. And as was stated earlier, what will you do, purge the party of those who don't believe? ... In the meantime, you have a party leader in President Bush, whether you like it or not.

Well, that's one opinion that I can whole heartedly disagree with.  Actually, it's anything but meaningless.  It's a practical platform.  Limited Government, Fiscal discipline, Reform, a rejection of the "Living" Constitution hypothesis, among others.  Simple, Easy, and anything but an "ill defined slogan"  And your question is just as easy, replace them with those that do.  If they want their power back that is.  Oh, and the reference to Bush being the GOP's party leader falls into the category of "No d'uh"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Amianthus

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Re: Another Republican that doesn't get it
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2006, 12:02:31 PM »
So?

Edward Jackson was always a Republican.

So?

And he was a lifelong northerner, so I guess not all racists live in the south, contrary to some opinions around here.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

_JS

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Re: Another Republican that doesn't get it
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2006, 12:06:35 PM »
Quote
Well, that's one opinion that I can whole heartedly disagree with.  Actually, it's anything but meaningless.  It's a practical platform.  Limited Government, Fiscal discipline, Reform, a rejection of the "Living" Constitution hypothesis, among others.  Simple, Easy, and anything but an "ill defined slogan"  And your question is just as easy, replace them with those that do.  If they want their power back that is.  Oh, and the reference to Bush being the GOP's party leader falls into the category of "No d'uh"

Limited Government: What does that mean? Will abortion rights be left alone? Will there be no more attempts at establishing prayer in school? Or is it limited only where you believe it should be limited?

Fiscal discipline: Does that include foreign invasions like Iraq and the "War on Terror" ? What exactly will fiscal discipline include?

Reform: The most used word in the politician's guidebook to being elected. What reform? What specific areas need reform?

Living Constitution: What areas in the past six years have suffered from the "living constitution" hypothesis?

So far it still falls in the meaningless category Sirs, you've just attached more meaningless rhetoric to it. Let's get into the specifics.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

_JS

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Re: Another Republican that doesn't get it
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2006, 12:07:40 PM »
Quote
So?

And he was a lifelong northerner, so I guess not all racists live in the south, contrary to some opinions around here.

Ummm...OK. I've got to go with the price of tea in China question now. Is there a point to this?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Amianthus

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Re: Another Republican that doesn't get it
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2006, 12:18:45 PM »
Ummm...OK. I've got to go with the price of tea in China question now. Is there a point to this?

Ask XO - he started this.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: Another Republican that doesn't get it
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2006, 05:06:53 PM »
Limited Government: What does that mean?

It means the Fed is responsible for what the constitution says its responsible for, and not what would be "nice" for the Fed to be responsible for

Fiscal discipline:...What exactly will fiscal discipline include?

It includes being responsible for paying for what is done.  Not borrowing on the future, not hypertaxing the present.  It means budgeting and then STICKING to it, as best as possible.  It also includes not expanding programs that are failing or when running a deficit, and not adding a multitude of domestic programs when running a deficit

Reform: The most used word in the politician's guidebook to being elected. What reform? What specific areas need reform?

You're kidding right?  SS, Medicare, the Tax system, Tort reform.  THOSE are the areas that need reform, not ethics or civility.  On the list of priorties that need reform, those latter 2 rank FAR below the ones mentioned above

Living Constitution: What areas in the past six years have suffered from the "living constitution" hypothesis?

1st amendment, 2nd amendment, 4th amendment, Emminant Domain, etc., etc., etc.  And the myriad of attacks have been occuring for far longer than 6 years.  Not sure why you put the beginning of Bush II as the qualifier, as if such a hypothesis only begain in 2000

So far it still falls in the meaningless category Sirs, you've just attached more meaningless rhetoric to it. Let's get into the specifics.

Only to you and like minded libs, Js
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: Another Republican that doesn't get it
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2006, 05:22:20 PM »
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It means the Fed is responsible for what the constitution says its responsible for, and not what would be "nice" for the Fed to be responsible for

So the Republicans will be re-elected on removing Social Security completely? Medicare and Medicaid? That sounds like an election winner to me.

Quote
It includes being responsible for paying for what is done.  Not borrowing on the future, not hypertaxing the present.  It means budgeting and then STICKING to it, as best as possible.  It also includes not expanding programs that are failing or when running a deficit, and not adding a multitude of domestic programs when running a deficit

So when you're running a deficit and a major hurricane strikes, earthquake, or terrorist attack the Federal government just says "tough luck" ? When the military comes and says we need another $20 billion for operations in Iraq, you just tell them - "Nope, sorry - Jim Bob and Tammy Rae aren't paying any more taxes this month. Come back when we've got a new budget for next year."

Sirs, a budget isn't done in real dollars. It is done in theoretical dollars with projected revenues and contingency planning, some governments don't even plan for inflationary adjustments. "Sticking to the budget" is not necessarily feasible. Consider National Parks. The majority of their revenue comes in the months of June, July, and August. Now, depending upon location, if the weather is terribly hot or incredibly wet you will experience lower revenue in those three months. It might amaze you, but there isn't a whole hell of a lot the National Park Service can do about it. Now, should that prevent Congress from establishing a new National Park? Is the success and the goal of the NPS to make money? Or is it measured in some other manner?

This is the problem with those who claim that the Government should operate like a business or budget like a family. The problem, of course, is that the Government operates and budgets like neither because it functions very differently from either one. It functions on democratic principles and statutes, clearly much differently than a family or business. It is not designed to make quick decisions, nor can it simply ignore statute or regulation. I'm always amazed at those who have no idea how a government operates (and no I'm not aiming that at you Sirs, just off on a tangent).

Quote
You're kidding right?  SS, Medicare, the Tax system, Tort reform.  THOSE are the areas that need reform, not ethics or civility.  On the list of priorties that need reform, those latter 2 rank FAR below the ones mentioned above

How and why do they need reform?

Quote
1st amendment, 2nd amendment, 4th amendment, Emminant Domain, etc., etc., etc.  And the myriad of attacks have been occuring for far longer than 6 years.  Not sure why you put the beginning of Bush II as the qualifier, as if such a hypothesis only begain in 2000

I chose the last six years specifically because you reference this thread as a reason why the GOP lost badly in the recent elections and how they can get back on track. Another way of asking is, why wasn't this addressed over the last six years?

Quote
Only to you and like minded libs, Js

You might get farther without the groupthink mentality.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: Another Republican that doesn't get it
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2006, 05:55:06 PM »
Quote
It means the Fed is responsible for what the constitution says its responsible for, and not what would be "nice" for the Fed to be responsible for

So the Republicans will be re-elected on removing Social Security completely? Medicare and Medicaid? That sounds like an election winner to me. ...You might get farther without the groupthink mentality.

See Js, when you start distorting as bad as knute, it's hard to take whatever else you say seriously.  When did "reform" = "removal"??  Perhaps we best stop our debate on this issue at this point.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle