Author Topic: Looking Ahead  (Read 774 times)

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Michael Tee

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Looking Ahead
« on: October 26, 2008, 09:46:40 PM »
At this point in time, it seems apparent that the U.S. will have a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress, perhaps even a super-majority Congress able to over-ride Republican filibusters and general obstructionism.  Thinking ahead, I am wondering how real change can be achieved.  Obama has said, or hopefully, had to say, a lot of nonsense to get himself elected and now we have to hope that some of that garbage he wasn't too serious about.  America's domestic needs are pressing and need immediate attention.  The foreign situation is a slow steady bleed of treasure and national effort and needs to be rationalized immediately.  Here are what I see as the immediate needs of America in its foreign policy and the grass roots have to be organized now to support them, on the assumptions that either Obama will enthusiastically attempt to move these objectives forward or that he will resist them, i.e., working either with or against Obama in pursuit of these goals:

1.  Immediate termination of the Iraq War.  This means a phased withdrawal of all forces to be completed in not more than three months.  Plans for a three-month total withdrawal with all weapons and war materiel to be completed and submitted in three weeks, finalized in one week, execution to commence immediately upon finalization of the plan.  This plan is to proceed regardless of American and/or Iraqi  casualties, which the plan is expected to minimize if possible but not necessarily to eliminate.  There will be no option other than total withdrawal at the end of the three months.

2.  Ditto for the Afghan War.

3.  Cessation of all foreign aid programs indefinitely, including military, economic, "war on drugs" aid.  All foreign aid personnel to be out of all client countries within one month of inauguration and all in-country supplies and equipment consisting of food or medical supplies to be distributed in-country, and if military or police in nature to be removed back to the U.S. or destroyed beyond any possibility of repair in place.  New criteria for foreign aid entitlement to be drawn up, such that no country in armed conflict with external or internal enemies, no country in defiance or non-compliance of U.N. Security Council resolutions and no country found to be in substantial violation of Human Rights as defined in the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights will be entitled to receive any foreign aid of any kind whatsoever, and all others must apply anew for US foreign aid in accordance with a special foreign aid protocol to be established by the incoming Obama administration according to fixed and transparent principles.


BT

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Re: Looking Ahead
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2008, 09:53:05 PM »
Never happen.

Even the netroots won't go for it.


Michael Tee

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Re: Looking Ahead
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2008, 09:58:23 PM »
<<Never happen.>>

That's a given.  Why not?

<<Even the netroots won't go for it. >>

I'm sure some would.  Michael Moore claims that some Democratic candidates for the House are in favour of immediate withdrawal.  Why not netroots?

BT

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Re: Looking Ahead
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2008, 10:05:39 PM »
The first 180 days will focus on domestic initiatives.

16 Months is reasonable for Iraq.

Afghanistan will have it's own surge.

We won't go isolationist, and it certainly wouldn't happen with Obama at the helm. He promised to repair our standing overseas, that won't happen by cutting off the aid spigot.

He is inexperienced. He isn't stupid.






Plane

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Re: Looking Ahead
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2008, 10:17:55 PM »
  If we leave Iraq in bad shape , or Afganistan or both , isn't it likely that Al Queda will take over that territory and invite us back?

Michael Tee

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Re: Looking Ahead
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2008, 05:40:36 PM »
BT:  <<We won't go isolationist, and it certainly wouldn't happen with Obama at the helm. He promised to repair our standing overseas, that won't happen by cutting off the aid spigot.>>

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I'd be interested to see what you think is really keeping the U.S. interventionist overseas.  I did not suggest cutting off the aid spigot permanently; I said it should be disconnected for all recipients, who must then re-apply individually through a public, transparent process, and subject to certain rules which bar support to nations in defiance of UN Security Council resolutions or human rights violators.


plane:  <<If we leave Iraq in bad shape , or Afganistan or both , isn't it likely that Al Queda will take over that territory and invite us back?>>

Why would al Qaeda invite you back?  How do you know it would be al Qaeda and not a secular group?

Plane

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Re: Looking Ahead
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2008, 05:43:35 PM »

plane:  <<If we leave Iraq in bad shape , or Afganistan or both , isn't it likely that Al Queda will take over that territory and invite us back?>>

Why would al Qaeda invite you back?  How do you know it would be al Qaeda and not a secular group?


Because they are stupid.

They were stupid to invite us into Afganistan , I don't see that they have outgrown this stupidity quite yet.

You can really take over while being stupid , if you are willing to be the meanest thug as well. Al Queda has this in spades.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Looking Ahead
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2008, 05:52:58 PM »
Because they are stupid.

They were stupid to invite us into Afganistan , I don't see that they have outgrown this stupidity quite yet.

You can really take over while being stupid , if you are willing to be the meanest thug as well. Al Queda has this in spades.
=========================================
News Flash!

Al Qaeda never invited the US into Afghanistan. The facts are these:
The US government told Mullah Omar's Taliban government to turn over bin Laden and some others and drive Al Qaeda out of Afghanistan.
Mullah Omar refused. He probably did not have the ability to do as requested, but he refused.\
The US immediately gave nice new weapons to the anti-Taliban warlords, then sent in the special forces and others.

Saddam did not invite the US into Iraq, either.

The US has also taken over many Indian lands while being stupid. The resettlement of the Navajos in Eastern NM was a pretty good example of this.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Looking Ahead
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2008, 06:15:08 PM »
Because they are stupid.

They were stupid to invite us into Afganistan , I don't see that they have outgrown this stupidity quite yet.

You can really take over while being stupid , if you are willing to be the meanest thug as well. Al Queda has this in spades.
=========================================
News Flash!

Al Qaeda never invited the US into Afghanistan. The facts are these:
The US government told Mullah Omar's Taliban government to turn over bin Laden and some others and drive Al Qaeda out of Afghanistan.
Mullah Omar refused. He probably did not have the ability to do as requested, but he refused.\
The US immediately gave nice new weapons to the anti-Taliban warlords, then sent in the special forces and others.

Saddam did not invite the US into Iraq, either.

The US has also taken over many Indian lands while being stupid. The resettlement of the Navajos in Eastern NM was a pretty good example of this.

Al Quieda bombed the World trade center in 93 , when we did not invade them in Afganistan the bombed more of our stuff trending to bigger and bigger targets , this is the invite I am speaking of.

They were prepareing a welcome for us in Afganistan , Osama made no secret of it really , huge arsenals were hidden in the hills , supplys of every kind and resupply networks were strong , Osama wanted to do to us what he gave himself credit for doing to the Russians.

Do you think that if we had not invaded after 9-11 we would have not soon received a bigger invite ?

I think that is unavoidable , and I also think that Al Queda if it can will become the government behind the government in other countrys as it did in Afganistan.