More Truth for The Fooled to Call Racist Because it Concerns Race

[BT]

Still don't see where i am wrong, Hispanics have passed blacks in the size of their voting bloc.

[Mucho]

Still don't see where i am wrong, Hispanics have passed blacks in the size of their voting bloc.

 In size , maybe , but not in moral power.

[BT]

In size , maybe , but not in moral power.

How so? And WTF is moral power?

[sirs]

Still don't see where i am wrong, Hispanics have passed blacks in the size of their voting bloc.

In size , maybe , but not in moral power.

"Moral Power"??     

[_JS]

I can't speak for Plane but i do know that W garnered more of the 'Black" vote than many of his predessors. The question then becomes is that a result of integration and educational efforts and economic advancement or is that just a normal statistic that reflects a certain percentage always marching to a different drummer no matter the demographic they belong to.

How do you figure that? Bush the elder won 10% of the African American vote in 1992. Dole won 12%. Bush took 8% in 2000 and 11% in 2004. He did no better than his predecessors, certainly not statistically significantly any better than his father and no better than Bob Dole in 1996. It makes your second statement and Plane's veiled racist remark absolutely invalidated.

I think the discussion is largely academic anyway as anyone who follows demagraphics realize that brown is the new black.

Interestingly that is a demographic the Republican Party and people such as Sirs (and many others) simply handed to the Democrats with the Iraq War and immigration discussion. Polls showed that the number one issue facing Hispanics was immigration reform, and that they were 2 to 1 more likely to vote for Democrats based on that issue. In 2004 immigration was very rarely ranked as a top tier issue. By a 62% to 28% margin  most Hispanics favored immigration reform, but as I said earlier, they favor the Democrats to do it - not the Republicans. Three-quarters of Hispanic voters feel that discrimination against Hispanics is a problem in the United States.

The Iraq war was also a major issue with roughly 69% disapproval amongst Hispanic voters.

[sirs]

Interestingly that is a demographic the Republican Party and people such as Sirs (and many others) simply handed to the Democrats with the Iraq War and immigration discussion. Polls showed that the number one issue facing Hispanics was immigration reform, and that they were 2 to 1 more likely to vote for Democrats based on that issue.

Well, you won't get any arguement from me as to the piss poor lack of immigration reform, and the continued notion of amnesty being proposed by Bush.  Not very "conservative or pragmatic".  The GOP started to figure it out, but much too late in the ball game

And before you even make the knute-like leap, no, that doesn't mean rounding up every illegal immigrant and putting them in camps or deporting them, all in 1 fell swoop

The Iraq war was also a major issue with roughly 69% disapproval amongst Hispanic voters

A true leader by nature doesn't lead by way of what the polls say he needs to lead by.  For that, Bush gets some recognition

[Mucho]

In size , maybe , but not in moral power.

How so? And WTF is moral power?

I forgot you guys were no longer moral nor in power anymore. What I mean is that Blacks and American Indians are deserving of special consideration because of what was done to them. Remember , the others came here voluntarily , the Indians were forced off and the blacks forced on this land. I think we have a special moral obligation to them. Some Indians are getting their reparations via legal gambling and some via oil. I am not sure how we can ever compensate the Blacks.

[_JS]

Well, you won't get any arguement from me as to the piss poor lack of immigration reform, and the continued notion of amnesty being proposed by Bush.  Not very "conservative or pragmatic".  The GOP started to figure it out, but much too late in the ball game

And before you even make the knute-like leap, no, that doesn't mean rounding up every illegal immigrant and putting them in camps or deporting them, all in 1 fell swoop

The problem is that the Hispanic community did not appreciate the extreme manner in which many Republicans approached the issue. People like JD Hayworth are not what the Hispanic community approves of at large, from what I've read. They seem to prefer amnesty or at least a much more humane plan and an approach that does not use terms like "invasion" and "crisis."

The truth is that Bush did well with Hispanics and Spanish-speaking Hispanics, and the Republican Party destroyed those gains in 2005 and 2006.

A true leader by nature doesn't lead by way of what the polls say he needs to lead by.  For that, Bush gets some recognition

And you live with the repercussions that if you send soldiers to die in an unpopular war your party stands to suffer long-term losses. Reagan's people tried to warn Bush.

[Plane]

If it becomes more common for Black people to be successfull and /or well educated it will become more common for them to vote their own minds and in their individual intrest.

So, currently, in your opinion Plane, African-Americans aren't educated or wealthy enough to vote "their own minds and in their own individual interests" ?

More all the time.

Do white people become traitors to their race by swiching their party? Is this impossible for a White person?

Why are Black people not considered as individuals the way that White people are?

[sirs]

The problem is that the Hispanic community did not appreciate the extreme manner in which many Republicans approached the issue. People like JD Hayworth are not what the Hispanic community approves of at large, from what I've read. They seem to prefer amnesty or at least a much more humane plan and an approach that does not use terms like "invasion" and "crisis."

Strange.  I've read how a predominat amout of Legal Hispanic citizens support immigration reform, including tougher enforcement and no amnesty.  In fact, I'm confident that Bush's push for amnesty was a deal breaker for both core conservatives & loyal legal immigrants.  And before you ask what that's supposed to mean, it's in reference to the multitude of immigrants that went thru our system legally, and support the need to control our borders

The truth is that Bush did well with Hispanics and Spanish-speaking Hispanics, and the Republican Party destroyed those gains in 2005 and 2006.

And what changed?  Oh yea, the push for amnesty.  The House finally figured it out, but much too late in the game

And you live with the repercussions that if you send soldiers to die in an unpopular war your party stands to suffer long-term losses. Reagan's people tried to warn Bush.

That's 1 viewpoint.  Another is of you continue in failing to stick to the principals that put you in power in the 1st place, you live with the repercussions of that endeavor, including being voted out of power.  Whether it's long term or not, depends on if you learned from your mistakes

[_JS]

Strange.  I've read how a predominat amout of Legal Hispanic citizens support immigration reform, including tougher enforcement and no amnesty.

Source?

That's 1 viewpoint.  Another is of you continue in failing to stick to the principals that put you in power in the 1st place, you live with the repercussions of that endeavor, including being voted out of power.  Whether it's long term or not, depends on if you learned from your mistakes

So you just conveniently ignore the fact that Iraq was so high on the list of priorities for voters? Where did budget deficits rank again Sirs? Where did illegal immigration rank? That's right, far below the Iraq War. In some demographics the Iraq War was #1. In fact, it was priority #1 in the Hispanic demographic that we are currently discussing. Care to address that?

[_JS]

If it becomes more common for Black people to be successfull and /or well educated it will become more common for them to vote their own minds and in their individual intrest.

So, currently, in your opinion Plane, African-Americans aren't educated or wealthy enough to vote "their own minds and in their own individual interests" ?

More all the time.

Do white people become traitors to their race by swiching their party? Is this impossible for a White person?

Why are Black people not considered as individuals the way that White people are?

I find the question rather strange coming from someone who claims that Black people don't currently vote their "own minds" and "own individual interests." That is a very broad, sweeping, and racist statement for someone who then asks why they aren't considered individuals. Of course "white people" are grouped demographically when they vote as well. White men tend to vote Republican whereas white women tend to vote Democrat. So, of course voting preferences per deomographics are noted by groups from all sides of the political spectrum. Do you really think "don't be a girlie man?" bumper stickers were printed without looking at the demographics? Do you think Republicans in Watts would have used those, considering that Black men vote overwhelmingly Democrat?

The problem here is that you are using knute's racism as an excuse for your own. One does not excuse the other. I don't know why the Republicans do poorly amongst the African-American community. I might suggest that having people like Trent Lott as Senate Minority Leader and Haley Barbour as Governor (and one time RNC Chairman) probably does not help. What certainly doesn't help is telling the African American community that they need to be better educated and wealthier to start voting Republican.

[BT]

What certainly doesn't help is telling the African American community that they need to be better educated and wealthier to start voting Republican.

I don't see where he said that.

[_JS]

Bt:

If it becomes more common for Black people to be successfull and /or well educated it will become more common for them to vote their own minds and in their individual intrest.

[kimba1]

 What I mean is that Blacks and American Indians are deserving of special consideration because of what was done to them. Remember , the others came here voluntarily , the Indians were forced off and the blacks forced on this land. I think we have a special moral obligation to them. Some Indians are getting their reparations via legal gambling and some via oil. I am not sure how we can ever compensate the Blacks

as a member neither of these folks
the obligation should extend to opportunity.
everyone should get all the opportunity to do anything.
nothing should be given for something done in the far past.
unless they are still alive.
the mongol`s tried to wipeout my race.
It`s stupid to get money from them now.
I don`t know anyone who gives a rats ass about the mongols and what they did.
also the issue of white guilt is stupid
not all white folks were involved.
in fact some had it worst than blacks.
the term white trash comes to mind
these folks are looked  down upon by blacks.
white guilt is absurd.