The Libertarian Temptation

[Plane]

I think that government can perform essential regulateing and co-ordinateing functions .

But haveing 50% of us involved in co-ordination seems wastefull.

Even 10% of us being co-ordinators and only 90% ofus actually doing productive things seems like a high tooth to tail ratio.

If .01% of us being in government were enough , exactly the minimum, that is what I would want , it would be the best streamlineing and effeciency to keep the most of us supporting rather than co-ordinateing , after all most of us can perform a good bit of our own co-ordinateing.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Even 10% of us being co-ordinators and only 90% ofus actually doing productive things seems like a high tooth to tail ratio.

If .01% of us being in government were enough , exactly the minimum, that is what I would want , it would be the best streamlineing and effeciency to keep the most of us supporting rather than co-ordinateing , after all most of us can perform a good bit of our own co-ordinateing.
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Those who actually PRODUCE in this country are a rather small minority.

Advertisers do not produce, realtors do not produce, salespeople do not produce. Clever people using craigslist could save a huge amount of their income if they were to simply buy from one another rather than through intermediaries.

 Restaurants do not supply anything that people could not supply for themselves, and are therefore less than 100% productive. Educators produce a service the utility of which is very highly variable. Many students never find a use for much of what they have studied, though those who do find a use for it are responsible for most innovation.

Productive people are those who manufacture, assemble, repair, and distribute physical products., as well as those who plant, grow, harvest and distribute the food we eat and supply seed and fertilizer and such in support of agriculture.

The banking and insurance industries do not really have any products. They simply facilitate the distribution and flow of products and food to market in an uninterrumpted manner. They are essential, but their role is less than 100% productive.

The government, by defending the country, enforcing regulations, and the most of other things it does is at least as productive as the banking and insurance industries.

[Plane]

I would count services as productive , even if the product is as ephemeral as saved time.

Saved time has a real cash value.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I would count services as productive , even if the product is as ephemeral as saved time.

Saved time has a real cash value.
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It CAN have a cash value, but this is not always the case.

If you come home and make yourself a hamburger for $1.00 instead of buying one from McDonald's for $2.00, you have not gained anything of value unless you saved time by doing this, and used that time to earn money at a higher rate than the money "saved". My experience is that if I drive to a fast-food place, wait to be served, wait to pay and drive home, I have spent more time than I would have spent making the food myself. It is true that my fried chicken is not as good as the Colonel's, but my burgers are better and my tacos are the same in quality.


.01% of a population of 300,000,000 people is 30,000 people to serve in all state, local and federal positions. I hardly think you could run the army, the police, the courts, the DMV's and such with so few people.

[Plane]

I would count services as productive , even if the product is as ephemeral as saved time.

Saved time has a real cash value.
=========================
It CAN have a cash value, but this is not always the case.

If you come home and make yourself a hamburger for $1.00 instead of buying one from McDonald's for $2.00, you have not gained anything of value unless you saved time by doing this, and used that time to earn money at a higher rate than the money "saved". My experience is that if I drive to a fast-food place, wait to be served, wait to pay and drive home, I have spent more time than I would have spent making the food myself. It is true that my fried chicken is not as good as the Colonel's, but my burgers are better and my tacos are the same in quality.


.01% of a population of 300,000,000 people is 30,000 people to serve in all state, local and federal positions. I hardly think you could run the army, the police, the courts, the DMV's and such with so few people.

A guy can dream can't he?

There must be a minimum nessacery government , and every approach to it is an improvement in that respect.

I have seen you maintain that if the US were less irritateing to other contries we would need less Army.

Well in that line of thinking , would we need less policeing internally if we simply respected each other more?

[Xavier_Onassis]

A guy can dream can't he?

There must be a minimum nessacery government , and every approach to it is an improvement in that respect.

I have seen you maintain that if the US were less irritateing to other contries we would need less Army.

Well in that line of thinking , would we need less policeing internally if we simply respected each other more?
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That is also true.  The US has more cops per capita than countries with lower crime rates. We somehow feel we need to have a much higher percentage of the population in jail as well.

Part of this is because the US has a much more diverse population than places like Denmark or Japan. Part of it is that Americans have many more weapons, and a higher percentage of people who have fought wars, which also leads to more violence. I am not sure, but I think the percentage of insane Americans is higher than the percentage of insane people in other counties. It is certainly true that the percentage of insane people off their meds is higher.

[Plane]

A guy can dream can't he?

There must be a minimum nessacery government , and every approach to it is an improvement in that respect.

I have seen you maintain that if the US were less irritateing to other contries we would need less Army.

Well in that line of thinking , would we need less policeing internally if we simply respected each other more?
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That is also true.  The US has more cops per capita than countries with lower crime rates. We somehow feel we need to have a much higher percentage of the population in jail as well.

Part of this is because the US has a much more diverse population than places like Denmark or Japan. Part of it is that Americans have many more weapons, and a higher percentage of people who have fought wars, which also leads to more violence. I am not sure, but I think the percentage of insane Americans is higher than the percentage of insane people in other counties. It is certainly true that the percentage of insane people off their meds is higher.

So, a more educated , mature , sane and civilised population could get by with less energy and resorces spent on government.