Author Topic: Unpopular decisions are the price of constitutional rights.  (Read 27618 times)

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Knutey

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Re: Unpopular decisions are the price of constitutional rights.
« Reply #120 on: November 22, 2008, 11:01:26 PM »
Agree is one thing.  Demand is entirely another.  What YOU deem someone else needs or should have is irrelevent.  Freedom includes the freedom to make bad decisions, even idiotic ones

And you & your ilk have made far more than your share.

Plane

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Re: Unpopular decisions are the price of constitutional rights.
« Reply #121 on: November 22, 2008, 11:37:45 PM »
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Are you seriously suggesting that marriage didn't exist until Israel?

Have you been reading the thread, or just a Johnny-come-lately?

My original question was for anyone to provide a chapter and verse in the Bible that defines marriage as only between a man and a woman. No one has been able to do so. My point about marriage first being mentioned around the time of Jacob was a response to your claim that it was established as the norm at creation. As I read it, Adam and Eve were naked at creation, and remained so until they violated God's rules and saw that their nudity was somehow shameful. (This brings up a side point about nudity being a true norm established at creation, but...) There is no mention that they were married, or ever intended to be married. In fact, as I said, there is no mention of marriage at all until the time of Jacob. If it was such a norm since the time of creation, why is there no mention of it until then, and no commandment anywhere that marriage is only to be between a man and a woman? I'm not saying that Adam and Eve, or Abraham and Sarah, or any of the figures from the old testament weren't living in a state we would consider marriage, and might even have been called marriage by whatever name they called it; I am saying that if it was so important that marriage were only to be between a man and a woman, why is there no mention of this anywhere in the Bible? I mean, it's detailed enough to proscribe eating shellfish, why not same sex marriage?

You can call me silly, or call it a poor argument, or throw whatever you want at it, but none of that serves to disprove it.

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We are not concerned about the word, but about the institution.
 

Then why so much fuss over a word? THAT's the point.

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If the God Loves Gays Universal Church of Really Really Close Brotherhood wants to marry gays and the Baptists don't - the government has no business interfering with either.

Ibid.

In the whole bible is ther one homosexual marrage mentioned?

Perhaps this never came up.

hnumpah

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Re: Unpopular decisions are the price of constitutional rights.
« Reply #122 on: November 23, 2008, 12:09:50 PM »
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In the whole bible is ther one homosexual marrage mentioned?

Perhaps this never came up.

Go ahead and bring it up. I'm told that just because the Bible doesn't mention it doesn't mean that it never happened, though, or that it doesn't exist - like Adam's 'nads, or the idea that the word 'marriage' is somehow copyrighted and can only apply to the union of a man and a woman.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 12:19:27 PM by hnumpah »
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Plane

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Re: Unpopular decisions are the price of constitutional rights.
« Reply #123 on: November 23, 2008, 05:28:02 PM »
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In the whole bible is ther one homosexual marrage mentioned?

Perhaps this never came up.

Go ahead and bring it up. I'm told that just because the Bible doesn't mention it doesn't mean that it never happened, though, or that it doesn't exist - like Adam's 'nads, or the idea that the word 'marriage' is somehow copyrighted and can only apply to the union of a man and a woman.

Yet every marrage that is mentioned is a heterosexual one , if the primary definition of "marrage " is a socially sanctioned  heterosexual union , then to point out again that it needs to be heterosexual is being redundant to the point of being pedantic.

As if one wre speaking of Lions , I mean the feline kind of lions.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Unpopular decisions are the price of constitutional rights.
« Reply #124 on: November 23, 2008, 07:22:26 PM »
Except for major figures, the Bible mentions marriages mostly in form of lineage (And X begat y, and y begat z)

Homosexual unions do not figure in here, because they are, as they say, without issue. This doesn't mean that there were no gay men in the Bible, thugh it seems probable to me that male gays were secretive, being as they did not wish to be executed, and Lesbians lived in a fairly segregated society and probably scissored one another for generations unbeknownst to the men, perhaps in the many periods when they were deemed "unclean".
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Plane

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Re: Unpopular decisions are the price of constitutional rights.
« Reply #125 on: November 24, 2008, 05:38:55 AM »
Except for major figures, the Bible mentions marriages mostly in form of lineage (And X begat y, and y begat z)

Homosexual unions do not figure in here, because they are, as they say, without issue. This doesn't mean that there were no gay men in the Bible, thugh it seems probable to me that male gays were secretive, being as they did not wish to be executed, and Lesbians lived in a fairly segregated society and probably scissored one another for generations unbeknownst to the men, perhaps in the many periods when they were deemed "unclean".


Yes ,meaning that a homosexual "marrage" as a socially sanctioned union was an impossibility under that situation.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 09:48:48 PM by Plane »

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Unpopular decisions are the price of constitutional rights.
« Reply #126 on: November 24, 2008, 09:36:13 PM »
This is the way it seems to me.

Of course I was not there. For all I know, rabbis at some time or another were easily bribed and gay guys ruled, so long as they produced an heir. Unlikely, but possible, I suppose.

The Bible sees to have no stand at all against Lesbians.  It was written by old rabbis, who I am guessing were not at their the wisest on womens customs and habits.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."