Maybe the sermon was about nudity being a norm established at creation

[hnumpah]

Taser Used To Subdue Naked Man In Washington Chapel

WASHINGTON, Pa. -- Washington police officers had to use a Taser to subdue a naked man reading Bible passages inside the City Mission on West Wheeling Street Sunday night.

Officers said that the 6-foot-4, 300-pound Baltimore-area man would not respond to requests from police to get on the ground.

The suspect was reportedly standing in the pulpit acting as if he was giving a sermon. Police said that the man?s clothes were in a pile on the chapel floor.

A few people were in the chapel at the time. Police said others left because they were frightened.

The suspect was taken to Washington Hospital to receive treatment.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I wonder why they felt they had to subdue him in the first place. Eventually, he would have most likely gotten tired and quit preaching.

This story calls him a "suspect". What was he suspected of, I wonder.

It seems to me that he was just bonkers, and the fuzz was just lazy and obsessed with being obeyed immediately by a guy who was really not threatening anyone with anything.

You can't blame people for being frightening, since there were cops shouting and tasering. Not what people come to church to experience, as a rule.

[hnumpah]

You can't blame people for being frightening, since there were cops shouting and tasering. Not what people come to church to experience, as a rule.

Depends. Some folks seem to love having the bejeezis scared out of them, with the preacher painting a particularly nasty picture of hell and the torment that awaits them if they transgress even the teeniest bit.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Depends. Some folks seem to love having the bejeezis scared out of them, with the preacher painting a particularly nasty picture of hell and the torment that awaits them if they transgress even the teeniest bit.

======================================================
I have yet to see a sermon where the preacher actually is armed with a harmful device. There may be a few people that might appreciate being tasered for Jesus, but so far no preacher has actually tried that sort of service. Benny Hinn pushes people and they fall over, but there is always someone behind them to insure they do not bust their skulls on the altar.

The descriptions of Hell given by preachers over the years are curiously all much more greatly descriptive than those of Heaven, have you noticed?

[hnumpah]

The descriptions of Hell given by preachers over the years are curiously all much more greatly descriptive than those of Heaven, have you noticed?

It depends on the denomination, the preacher, and the church. Some preachers seem to be stuck on hell fire and damnation, and some denominations seem to push those type of sermons more. Some churches are actually pretty laid back, and the sermons are more about the rewards of a good life. I've even found a couple that encourage the discussion of opposing points of view, such as mine.

[Xavier_Onassis]

It depends on the denomination, the preacher, and the church. Some preachers seem to be stuck on hell fire and damnation, and some denominations seem to push those type of sermons more. Some churches are actually pretty laid back, and the sermons are more about the rewards of a good life. I've even found a couple that encourage the discussion of opposing points of view, such as mine.

The Fundie churches seem to stress how God is gonna punish sinners for their wicked deeds, and the more progressive churches spend a lot more effort focusing on how we can make Earth a better place rather then how wonderful Heaven is going to be or how much better things will be when Jesus decides to return. This may have something to do with better educated people having a better sense of history and their place in it. Fundie churches seem almost entirely unaware of the non-Fundie Christian places in the world, except those that are out to get Fundie Christians-- formerly Roman Catholics, more often Muslims these days.

Perhaps your church is Unitarian?

[hnumpah]

I am an atheist. Cut my teeth on the Bible, raised hard core Southern Baptist, tried every denomination I could find before settling on one, almost became a minister, and finally realized it wasn't for me.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I am an atheist. Cut my teeth on the Bible, raised hard core Southern Baptist, tried every denomination I could find before settling on one, almost became a minister, and finally realized it wasn't for me.

It is fairly hard to be an atheist and a minister at the same time. Nonetheless, I am pretty sure that it has been done. Are you familiar with Miguel de Unamuno's novel San Martin Bueno, Martir (Saint Martin the Good, Martyr?). An excellent religious vision.

What about being an atheist and a shaman? How would that work out?

[fatman]

I'm pretty sure that there are atheist and non-Christian Unitarian-Universalists

[Xavier_Onassis]

I'm pretty sure that there are atheist and non-Christian Unitarian-Universalists

I agree with that. Unitarians do not believe in the Trinity, hence the name. They do not believe that Jesus was God. The emphasis of the UU Church is to for a community to live in harmony with everyone.

[The_Professor]

"I'm pretty sure that there are atheist and non-Christian Unitarian-Universalists

I agree with that. Unitarians do not believe in the Trinity, hence the name. They do not believe that Jesus was God. The emphasis of the UU Church is to for a community to live in harmony with everyone."


It's a Faith issue.

Jesus Christ Himself said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by Me."

Who is Me? Jesus Christ, also known by these:

Adam, the Last (1 Cor. 15:45)

Advocate (1 Jn. 2:1)

All & in All (Col. 3:11)

Almighty (Rev. 1:

Altogether Lovely One (Song of Sol. 5:16)

Amen (Rev. 3:14)

Anchor (Heb. 6:19)

Ancient of Days (Dan. 7:9-11 with Rev. 1:13-16)

Angel [of the Lord] (Gen. 16:9-14; Gen. 48:16)

Anointed, His (Ps. 2:2). See also Messiah.

Apostle (Heb. 3:1)

Arm of the Lord (Isa. 53:1)

Alpha & Omega (Rev. 1:8; 21:6)

Author (Heb. 12:2)

Balm of Gilead (Jer. 8:22)

Beginning (Col. 1:18)

Begotten (One and Only – John 3:16)

Beloved (Eph. 1:6)

Bishop of your souls (1 Pet. 2:25)

Blessed and only Potentate (1 Tim. 6:15)

Branch (Isa. 11:1; Jer. 23:5; Zech. 3:8; 6:12; Rev. 11:1)

Bread (John 6:32-33; 6:35)

Bridegroom (Mt. 9:15; Jn. 3:29; Rev. 21:9)

Bright & Morning Star, see Star.

Brightness of His (God's) glory (Heb. 1:3)

Captain of their salvation (Heb. 2:12; Josh. 5:4)

Carpenter['s son] (Mt. 13:55; Mk. 6:3)

Chief[est among ten thousand] Song of Sol. 5:10)

Child, [the young] (Isa. 9:6; Mt. 2:8-21)

Chosen of God (Lk. 23:35)

Christ (Mt. 1:17; Mk. 8:29; Jn. 1:41; Rom. 1:16; 1 Cor. 1:23)

Comforter (Isa. 61:2; Jn. 14:16)

Commander (Isa. 55:4)

Consolation of Israel (Lk. 2:25)

Corn of Wheat (Jn. 12:24)

Cornerstone (Eph. 2:20; see also Isa. 28:16)

Counsellor (Isa. 9:6; Isa. 40:13)

Covert (Isa. 32:2)

Creator of all things (Col. 1:16)

Daysman (Job 9:33)

Dayspring from on high (Lk. 1:78)

Day Star (2 Pet. 1:19). See also Bright & Morning Star.

Deliverer (Rom. 11:26)

Desire of all nations (Hag. 2:7)

Door [of the sheepfold] (Jn. 10:7, 9)

Emmanuel (Mt. 1:23; see also Isa. 7:14; 8:

End, see Beginning & the End. End of the Law (Rom 10:4)

Express image of His (God's) person (Heb. 1:3)

Faithful Witness (Rev. 1:5; 3:14; 19:11)

Faithful & True (Rev. 19:11)

Father of Eternity (Isa. 9:6)

Fellow of God (Zech. 13:7)

First & the Last (Rev. 1:17)

First begotten of the dead (Rev. 1:5)

Firstborn Firstfruits [of them that slept] (1 Cor. 15:20, 23)

Foundation (Isa. 28:16; 1 Cor. 3:11)

Fountain (Jer. 2:13; Zech. 13:1)

Forerunner (Heb. 6:20)

Friend of sinners (Mt. 11:19; Lk. 7:34)

Fulness of the Godhead (Col. 2:9)

Gift of God (Jn. 4:10; 2 Cor. 9:15)

Glory of God (Isa. 60:1)

God (Jn. 1:1; Mt. 1:23; Rom. 9:5; 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 1:

Good Master (Mt. 19:16)

Governor (Mt. 2:6)

Great High Priest (Heb. 4:14)

Guide (Ps. 48:14)

Head (even Christ) (Eph. 4:15)

Heir of all things (Heb. 1:2)

Helper (Heb. 13:6)

Hiding Place (Isa. 32:2)

High Priest (Heb. 3:1; 7:1)

Holy Child (Acts 4:30)

Holy One [& the Just] (Acts 2:27; 3:14)

Hope of Israel (Jer. 17:3)

Horn of salvation (Ps. 18:2; Lk. 1:69)

I AM (Jn. 8:24, 58)

Image of [the invisible] God (2 Cor. 4:4; Col. 1:15)

Intercessor (Heb. 7:25)

Jehovah (Isa. 26:4; 40:3)

Jesus (Mt. 1:21)

Judge (Micah 5:1; Acts 10:42)

Just One (Acts 7:52)

King (Zech. 14:16)

Kinsman (Ruth 2:14)

Lamb [of God] (Jn. 1:29, 36; 1 Pet 1:19; Rev. 5:6, 12; 7:17)

Last, see First. (Rev. 22:13)

Lawgiver (Isa. 33:22)

Life (1 Jn. 1:2)

Light (Jn. 12:35)

Lion of the tribe of Judah (Rev. 5:5)

Lord [& Saviour] (1 Cor. 12:3; 2 Pet. 1:11), see also Master.

Man (Jn. 19:5; Acts 17:31; 1 Tim. 2:5). See also Son of Man.

Master (Mt. 8:19)

Mediator (1 Tim. 2:5)

Merciful High Priest (Heb. 2:17)

Mercy Seat (Rom. 3:24-25)

Messiah (Dan. 9:25; Jn. 1:41; 4:25)

Mighty God (Isa. 9:6; 63:1)

Minister of the Sanctuary (Heb. 8:2)

Nazarene (Mk. 1:24)

Nobleman (Lk. 19:12)

Offering (Eph. 5:2; Heb. 10:10)

Offspring of David (Rev. 22:16). See also Root.

Ointment poured forth (Song of Sol. 1:3)

Omega. See Alpha & Omega.

One and Only Son, see Son. (John 3:16)

Passover (1 Cor. 5:7)

Peace, our (Eph. 2:14)

Physician (Mt. 9:12; Lk. 4:23)

Plant of Renown (Ezek. 34:29)

Potentate, Blessed and only, see Blessed Prince [& a Saviour] (Acts 3:15; 5:31)

Prophet (Acts 3:22-23)

Propitiation (1 Jn. 2:2; 4:10)

Power of God (1 Cor. 1:24)

Priest (Heb. 4:14)

Quickening (life-giving) Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45)

Rabbi (Jn. 3:2; Mt. 26:25; Jn. 20:16)

Ransom (1 Tim. 2:6)

Redeemer, Redemption (Isa. 59:20; 60:16; 1 Cor. 1:30)

Refuge (Isa. 25:4)

Resurrection & the Life (Jn. 11:25)

Righteousness (Jer. 23:6; 33:16; 1 Cor. 1:30)

Rock [of offence] (Deut. 32:15; 1 Cor. 10:4; Rom. 9:33; 1 Pet. 2:

Rod (Isa. 11:1)

Root (Rev. 22:16)

Rose of Sharon (Song of Sol. 2:1)

Sacrifice (Eph. 5:2)

Same, the (Heb. 1:12)

Sanctification (1 Cor. 1:30)

Saviour [of the world] (Lk. 1:47; 2:11; 1 Jn. 4:14)

Second Man, see Man.

Seed of Abraham (Gal. 3:16, 19)

Seed Servant (Isa. 42:1; 49:5-7; Mt. 12:18)

Shadow of a great Rock (Isa. 32:2)

Shepherd ( 1 Peter 5:4)

Shiloh (Gen. 49:10)

Son (Isa. 9:6; 1 Jn. 4:14)

Sower (Mt. 13:37)

Star (Num. 24:17)

Stone (Psalm 118:22)

Sun of Righteousness (Mal. 4:2)

Surety (Heb. 7:22)

Teacher (Mt. 26:18; Jn. 3:2; 11:28). See also Master.

Tender Plant (Isa. 53:2)

Testator (Heb. 9:15-17)

True Bread, see Bread.

Truth (Jn. 14:6)

Vine (Jn. 15:1, 5)

Way (Jn. 14:6)

Wisdom [of God] (1 Cor. 1:24, 30)

Wonderful (Isa. 9:6)

Word (Jn. 1:1)

BTW, A VERY GOOD WAY to give Thanks! Giving Thanks for Him!

[Xavier_Onassis]

You are reading a lot into the OT, it seems.

Jews who have studied the OT for 100 generations or more do not see any evidence that Jesus was the Messiah, or that the Messiah was a ever said to be a part of a Trinity. The Holy Spirit is an even less evidenced add-on. I suppose when anyone thinks of two humans, they would automatically think of, you know, a man and a woman, so some clever sould said, "hey, let's up it to three, and then they can all be guys, like us!" Or something like that.

So, you are right: it's a matter of faith. With just a tiny shred more, you can be a Mormon and we can ALL be divine.
Then maybe we won't have to spend all eternity singing in the Choir Celestial, which just has to get tedious after the first thousand years or so.

[Plane]

"You are reading a lot into the OT, it seems.

Jews who have studied the OT for 100 generations or more do not see any evidence that Jesus was the Messiah, or that the Messiah was a ever said to be a part of a Trinity. ......."

I am not sure about the Trinity, trinity is just an explanation of how God could be god and man , and why Jesus said he had to leave rather than stay. As far as I know it is correct , but it isn't supported directly by scripture.

The early church was full of Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and some modern ones do as well.

[hnumpah]

So, you are right: it's a matter of faith.

That plays a big part in many of the true believer's arguments. You gotta have faith, when you can't fall back on logic or facts.

[Xavier_Onassis]

"You are reading a lot into the OT, it seems.

Jews who have studied the OT for 100 generations or more do not see any evidence that Jesus was the Messiah, or that the Messiah was a ever said to be a part of a Trinity. ......."

I am not sure about the Trinity, trinity is just an explanation of how God could be god and man , and why Jesus said he had to leave rather than stay. As far as I know it is correct , but it isn't supported directly by scripture.

The early church was full of Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and some modern ones do as well.
====================================================================

The early church befoe Paul was very, very small, but all its members were Jews. Paul saw that the future of the church was nil if they did not accept former pagans. He also made a special concession for them when pagan men were not receptie to being circumsized. Paul was a PR man and an opportunist.

If God can be everywhere (omnipresent, a doctrine of the Church) then he is not logically required to be three persons. You might as well say as far as I know God is four, or five, of twenty-three entities. Three was just the lowest number after one. One God is the most important belief of Judaism.

Two is not possible: two humans is a couple, and never two males. So they had to add the "holy spirit" not a usual entity in Hebrew scripture.

The Bible is full of nonsense and contradictions (just google Biblican contradictions: do not annoy me with a "source?" bit). I do not accept the Bible as the Word of any God except perhaps a Discordian Deity.

 But the trinity is not one of these contradictions or zany rants. As I said, ONE GOD is the central belief of Judaism. None of those early church Jews believed in any trinity. The trinity is an invention of the post-Pauline Roman Church since around 300 AD