Author Topic: Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan  (Read 2095 times)

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Cynthia

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Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan
« on: December 01, 2008, 01:28:15 AM »
"On Sunday, Indian media began reporting that the only attacker captured alive, a Versace-T-shirted 21-year-old by the name of Ajmal Amir Kamal, was Pakistani, and that he had identified all his fellow militants as being trained by the banned Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Toiba. Pakistanis are suspicious of these claims. "There is simply not enough evidence at this point to blame Pakistan," says Najam Sethi, editor of the English political weekly, the Friday Times."

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1862864,00.html




Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2008, 12:17:43 PM »
US masses naval-air-marine might in Arabian Sea opposite India, Pakistan, Iran
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

December 1, 2008, 9:18 AM (GMT+02:00)


USS John Stennis carrier

Three US aircraft carriers with strike groups, task forces and nuclear submarines have piled up in the waters of the Arabian Sea opposite the shores of India, Pakistan and Iran, and in the Persian Gulf.

DEBKAfile's military sources report that the US began massing this formidable array of floating firepower at the outset of the Islamist terrorist attack on the Indian city of Mumbai last Wednesday, Nov. 26.

Tehran responded typically with a threat of retaliation should the Americans decide to use the Mumbai terrorist attack to hit Iran.

It is more likely, according to our military sources, that the Americans are on the ready in case the rising tensions between India and Pakistan over the New Delhi's charge of Pakistani involvement in the Mumbai atrocity explodes into an armed clash on their border.

This is indicated by the units now deployed:

1. the USS John C. Stennis, which carries 80 fighter-bombers and 3,200 sailors and airmen and leads a strike group..

This carrier joins two already there, the USS Theodore Roosevelt, which patrols the northern Arabian Sea, part of whose strike group cruises opposite Iran's southern coast; and the USS Iwo Jima, which carries a large marine contingent on board.

2. New to these waters, according to DEBKAfile's military sources, is the Destroyer Squadron 50/CTF 55, which has two task forces: Patrol Forces Southwest Asia (PATFORSWA) for strikes against warships and the rapid deployment of marines to flashpoint arenas; and Mine Countermeasures Division 31, which stands ready to prevent New Delhi or Islamabad from mining the Arabian Sea routes connecting their ports. Those routes are vital waterways for US marine traffic supporting the war in Afghanistan.

3. To manage this armada, the command and control vessel, USS Mount Whitney, has been brought over from the Mediterranean.

4. Four nuclear submarines.

The arrival of the southwest Asian marine patrol carrier Stennis and the Mount Whitney to the Arabian Sea opposite Iran's shores set alarm bells ringing in Tehran. Our Iranian sources note that the Islamic republic's rulers remember that after al Qaeda's attack on the United States on Sept. 11, 2001, the Americans did not only invade Afghanistan, but also Iraq and they fear a similar sideswipe.

The Iranian chief of staff, Maj. Gen. Ataoallah Salehi sounded a warning when he stated Sunday, Nov. 30: The "heavy weight" of enemy warships provides the Iranian side with an ideal opportunity for launching successful counter-attacks.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2008, 01:12:13 PM »
Some intel pundit on the radio today, was referencing that he heard (and that's all it really is, at this time), largely internal Muslim-Indian terrorists, assisted by some Alqeada-like sympathizers from both Pakistan & Afghanistan.  Alone none of them could have accomplished what they did, with what they used.  Together, they potentially could.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2008, 02:49:50 PM »
The "heavy weight" of enemy warships provides the Iranian side with an ideal opportunity for launching successful counter-attacks.

==============================
Sure it does. Wise strategy dictates attacking a superior force whenever possible. ::)
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2008, 04:16:17 PM »
The "heavy weight" of enemy warships provides the Iranian side with an ideal opportunity for launching successful counter-attacks.

==============================
Sure it does. Wise strategy dictates attacking a superior force whenever possible. ::)


"Then we shall have our fight in the shade."

Al Quieda is usually looking for a vunerability while remaining hidden , they are always outgunned by the US.

Haveing an armada that equals the power of all the locals put together in the area isn't reason for complacency.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2008, 05:31:57 PM »
Iran was not talking about sneak attacks here, obviously. One does not mention how one plans sneak attacks.

Iran has nothing to do with Al Qaeda or 9-11, either.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2008, 06:20:30 PM »
Iran was not talking about sneak attacks here, obviously. One does not mention how one plans sneak attacks.

Iran has nothing to do with Al Qaeda or 9-11, either.

Depends on what sort of attack you mean.

Atomic bmbs would be devistateing to the massed fleet.

Kamakazie aircraft would be rough .

The Iranian Navy would be seriously overmatched.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2008, 10:07:14 PM »
Atomic bmbs would be devistateing to the massed fleet.

But Iran has no atomic bombs nor any way to deliver them

Kamakazie aircraft would be rough .

Kamikaze aircraft would be a tad difficult, as Iran has a rather small air force, and does not manufacture any sort of planes, and current heat-seeking missiles would render them ineffective.


The Iranian Navy would be seriously overmatched.

That is not an advantage.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2008, 11:33:06 PM »

Captured Mumbai attacker implicates Pakistani military, intel

By Bill Roggio
November 30, 2008 4:23 PM

The only member of the jihadi assault team captured during the Mumbai attacks has fingered several Pakistani organizations as providing support to the group, according to reports in the Indian press.

Ajmal Amir Kasab, also known as Azam Amir Kasav, was captured by police after a shootout near the docks in southern Mumbai. He was wounded and feigned death but was picked up by police after he was seen breathing.

The siege in Mumbai lasted 62 hours and claimed more than 195 lives. Terror assault teams held the city hostage as they fanned out through the city and attacked policemen, five-star hotels, a train station, a cinema, a cafe, and a residential complex.

Kasab has provided details on how his team of 16 terror commandos departed Karachi, linked up with a freighter carrying arms, hijacked an Indian fishing boat, and infiltrated into Mumbai via inflatable rafts. [See Indian commandos end 62-hour siege of Mumbai.]

Kasab has implicated the Pakistani Navy and the Dawood Ibrahim criminal network based in Karachi for providing assistance and training for the Mumbai assault team, police sources told India Today. The plot to attack Mumbai was hatched more than a year ago, Kasab told police.

According to the police sources, Kasab said 20 Pakistanis began training in terror camps in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir more than one year ago. The group trained in the Kashmiri camps "almost five-and-half months, during which the terrorist were taught the use of sophisticated arms and ammunition."

After the training at the Kashmiri camps, the group was "given a month's leave and were ordered to gather in Karachi after the break for training in boating, rowing and swimming by the Pakistan Navy."

The terrorists were then given maps and other information on their targets in Mumbai and trained in attacking the targets, India Today reported. Earlier, Kasab said several members of the assault team visited Mumbai to scout the targets and familiarize themselves with the city.

Kasab also claimed members from Dawood Ibrahim's criminal network provided logistical support for the Mumbai assault team while they were in Karachi.

Ibrahim runs a vast criminal network throughout South Asia. He has been implicated in the 1993 Mumbai bombings and is known to receive backing by Pakistan's Inter-Service Intelligence agency. Indian intelligence believes Ibrahim is based out of Karachi.

The US government branded Ibrahim as a Specially Designated Global Terrorist in 2003. Ibrahim "has found common cause with Al Qaeda, sharing his smuggling routes with the terror syndicate and funding attacks by Islamic extremists aimed at destabilizing the Indian government," the US Treasury stated in a press release. Ibrahim "is known to have financed the activities of Lashkar-e-Taiba," the group thought to be behind this week's terror attacks in Mumbai.

Kasab also claimed local resident in Mumbai provided logistical support for the terror assault team, The Times of India reported. The locals provided "help like, providing shelter, taking them around and showing places, passing information on police stations," the news agency said. The operatives also received fake identification cards.

Some of the terrorists had stayed in Nariman House, the complex that houses Orthodox Jews, Kasab said. The Israelis were targeted "to avenge atrocities on Palestinians," the paper reported.

Indian intelligence has identified additional links to Pakistan and the Lashkar-e-Taiba. An "intercepted conversation between Muzammil, Muzaffarabad chief of LeT (Lashkar-e-Taiba) operations, and a certain Yahya in Bangladesh," showed a direct link in the Mumbai attacks, The Times of India reported. "Yahya arranged SIM cards, fake ID-cards primarily from western countries like Mauritius, UK, US, Australia."

Phone numbers on the satellite phone found the hijacked Indian fishing boat show calls were made to Zakir Ur Rehman, a Lashkar-e-Taiba training chief based in Karachi.

Indian intelligence officials also told The Times of India that 25 terrorists were "training in the Pakistan village of Durbari Mitho, and that an ISI agent was also involved in the training." It is unclear if these were members of the Mumbai assault team.

US intelligence strongly suspects the Lashkar-e-Taiba was behind the Mumbai attacks, working in conjunction with the Students Islamic Movement of India and the Harkat ul Jihad al Islami, through a front group called the Indian Mujahideen, several senior US intelligence officials told The Long War Journal.

Lashkar-e-Taiba has an extensive network in southern and Southeast Asia. The group has vast resources and is able to carry out complex attacks throughout its area of operations.

Lashkar-e-Taiba forces fight alongside al Qaeda and Taliban in Afghanistan. It conducts operations in India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Central Asia, and Chechnya. Like al Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Taiba seeks to establish a Muslim caliphate in southern and Central Asia. The group essentially runs a state within a state of Pakistan.

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2008/11/captured_mumbai_atta.php
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Cynthia

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Re: Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2008, 01:20:49 AM »
Atomic bmbs would be devistateing to the massed fleet.

But Iran has no atomic bombs nor any way to deliver them

Kamakazie aircraft would be rough .

Kamikaze aircraft would be a tad difficult, as Iran has a rather small air force, and does not manufacture any sort of planes, and current heat-seeking missiles would render them ineffective.


The Iranian Navy would be seriously overmatched.

That is not an advantage.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2008, 01:43:44 AM by Cindy »

Cynthia

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Re: Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2008, 01:42:58 AM »
Is there a chance that Iran might make nice with Russia and make more out of the situation ...one day?

One has to wonder just how a nation can flex its muscles like Iran without some sort of power juice in the background.

Don't think that the nations who want to rule the globe won't someday come together and make a treaty of "rule".

I wouldn't put it past the Iranians to form a union with someone in the region ...once upon a future time. I know this sounds futuristic and simply unreasonable now....but heck, one never knows. Perhaps North Korea/Russia/Iran will form an alliance someday..then there will be hell to pay.
Why can't we all just get along?

We focus on the wrong things, that's why. When a five+starHotel can be bombed and threatened as she was in Mumbai, we stand up with awe and anger. When we cry over the playground that is for the rich and elite, we cry when the playground is disturbed.

Instead, we need to be building. >>Building security for all human beings on this planet...not just for those who can afford more. The terrorists were willing to find a loophole. They did that. They will find a bigger loophole, not unlike the aftermath of 1993 Twin Tower attacks.......
WHy?
Because they can. They can bring a greedy bunch of coconuts DOWN when they want to becasue they have found the weakest link.
Powerful assembly and cries for attention are their motive, IMO. They hate. They are animals. SURE> TRUE> ahh but they are also keenly aware of just how much the nations of power/wealth operate. 10 men tried to kill 5000. It's a game.

It's a game to them on a certain level. I don't believe for one minute that it's such a religious cry for attention. Power is so very key to the human element. Let us not forget that.

Ignore them? Work on making higher barbed wire? Make safer kitchens in the rear of fancy hotels?

They did this because they could.

If Pakistan and India fight internally becuase of this fiasco......then the powerful assholes have won.

Come on nations....do you really want them to dictate your children's future?

I say....stop the roaches in their tracks and move on.

Stirring fire and gossip and hate and trouble are the lowest forms of life.

Those men are not different. They need to be studied and we need to pay attention to the real reason we have had to also


pay attention to them for ten +years.

complacency   vs    bored powerless animals.

What a contest.

BT

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Re: Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2008, 01:52:05 AM »
Quote
We focus on the wrong things, that's why.

Yes we do

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2008, 10:07:09 AM »
Is there a chance that Iran might make nice with Russia and make more out of the situation ...one day?

============================================
That would be when they are not both competing to sell oil, and when the Russians are no longer fighting with their own local Muslims. What would Russia gain from a military alliance with Iran? If there is no advantage, there will be no alliance.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Cynthia

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Re: Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2008, 10:16:35 PM »
Is there a chance that Iran might make nice with Russia and make more out of the situation ...one day?

============================================
That would be when they are not both competing to sell oil, and when the Russians are no longer fighting with their own local Muslims. What would Russia gain from a military alliance with Iran? If there is no advantage, there will be no alliance.


I suppose the only advantage would be if they were both willing to bury the hatchet for the sake of global domination. There's so much oil to fight over and even more hate to go around in that part of the globe. Who knows. One never really knows down the road.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Mumbai: The Perils of Blaming Pakistan
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2008, 11:46:45 PM »
I suppose the only advantage would be if they were both willing to bury the hatchet for the sake of global domination. There's so much oil to fight over and even more hate to go around in that part of the globe. Who knows. One never really knows down the road.
================================================
Iran is hardly after "world domination". Their main goal is to perhaps be a tad better off than Turkey. Shia Muslims are realistic enough to know that they will never be dominant in the Muslim world. The Russians have a long way to go to achieve domination. Oil alone won't do it.

I suppose in some distant future any two countries might form an alliance. Russians are either atheist or Orthodox, and neither are fond of Shiites or any other Muslims at present.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."