Author Topic: Madoff  (Read 3041 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Madoff
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2008, 06:04:49 PM »
How can you know less than nothing Mr. Literal? Please, enlighten us all brainiac.

==================================
I am hoping that you are capable of comprehending this.

If Bozo is asked "How much is two plus two?", and one answers "I do not know"., then it can be said that one knows nothing.

On the other hand, if Dodo is asked the same question, and insists over and over that the answer is twenty-two, then it can be said that while Bozo knows nothing, Dodo knows even less. Hence Dodo (that would be you) knows less than nothing.

Nearly everything you say you know is not true.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Madoff
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2008, 06:09:32 PM »
"Both of these are NOT "windfall profit"

Yes they are.

Obviously you do not know the defintion of "wind fall profit".

Windfall profit defined:
A windfall gain (or windfall profit) is any type of income that is unexpected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windfall_gain
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

richpo64

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Re: Madoff
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2008, 06:11:13 PM »
I'll quote Ronaldus Magnus: There you go again.

... less than nothing ... nice try though.

 :D

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Madoff
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2008, 06:11:24 PM »
Those of us putting children through college know the ridiculous prices.

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You should get wealthy patrons to give tuition money to your children, rather than to the universities. Perhaps they would do this more willingly if you allowed the names of the patrons to be tattooed on your offsprings' foreheads. "The Donald R. Trump Student of  Business";"The Richard Mellon Scaife Student of Marketing".

Alas, it is a matter of supply and demand. Professors who taught for the joy of teaching are retiring and being replaced by fewer, hungrier, and less charitable scholars. It's not nearly so bad as what OPEC does on a regular basis.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Madoff
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2008, 06:19:49 PM »
Yes they are.

Obviously you do not know the defintion of "wind fall profit".

Windfall profit defined:
A windfall gain (or windfall profit) is any type of income that is unexpected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windfall_gain
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Call it anything you wish. The facts are, however these:

(1) Nearly all donations, unexpected or not, come with many strings attached. They must be spent in the manner agreed upon or the university will not get the money or will have to return it.

(2) Anonymous checks are extremely rare. If they are very large, they might go into the university's endowment, or be used to start a new academic endeavor. If not, they will go into the general fund and might cause a drop in tuition. However, there will be some marketing types in the university administration who will say "how can we spend this money for maximum prestige and attention to our image? Rather than just lower tuition for a few years, let us charge what the public is willing to pay, and let us spend this money in such a way as to enhance our image and attract even more donations." So maybe they will give special scholarships to deserving and poor students exclusively, or they could start a program of studies in a trendy subject.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Madoff
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2008, 06:35:31 PM »
Well, you have to admire Xo's rationalization efforts to condemn "obscene profits" when its Big "X" (X = oil, business, pharmaceutical, or any other large private company/corporation), but if it's an establishment of what the left supports, such as Big School, Big Union, Big Government, etc, well, then whatever surprising large sums of $$$$ are brought in, are welcomed, with a perfectly "rational" explanation.

News flash Xo, the point is the large sums of money taken in, not the rationalized effort of what the Big "whatever" intends to do with it
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Madoff
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2008, 06:48:54 PM »
Lookit, silly.

When Big Oil or Big Pharma rakes in tons of money, this is done because they can get away with it. The people buying gas or pills do not want to pay more, they are forced to.

When a university gets a huge bequest, it is voluntarily given: Harvard does not extort mammoth donations as a rule from the major benefactors.

When Big Oil or Big Pharma or whomever gets a bundle of money, they have some restrictions on what they can spend it from the shareholders and the business planners, but academic contributions are much more restricted as a rule.


And the reason this came up was Richpo or someone else bitching about the high cost of tuition. I was explaining why donations (which are not like windfall profits (except in the widest sense).

If you want to complain about how universities are not compared in the news with big business, then call Rush. He lets people like you vent from time to time. Or start a blog. 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

richpo64

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Re: Madoff
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2008, 06:51:37 PM »
>>When Big Oil or Big Pharma rakes in tons of money, this is done because they can get away with it. The people buying gas or pills do not want to pay more, they are forced to.<<

Interesting. But then I'm forced to pay whatever the University wants, or I can lumb it ... silly.

sirs

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Re: Madoff
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2008, 06:54:42 PM »
And yet again, Xo's infatuation with Rush Limbaugh.  I wonder if there's some medication for that.  something from Big Pharma, perhaps
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Madoff
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2008, 07:12:39 PM »
in other words XO changes the subject

first it was "Universities dont get a wind fall profit"

then when it is proven by definition universities do get a windfall profit

XO then changes the subject and argues some wind fall profits = good....if he so deems them to be

 ::)
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Madoff
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2008, 11:21:50 PM »
If unexpected donations are a windfall, they are not a profit.

A profit implies the exchange of money for a product or service.

A donation is therefore not a profit.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Madoff
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2008, 12:58:47 AM »
Mr. Literal strikes again
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Madoff
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2008, 09:57:44 AM »
Mr. Literal strikes again


Are you suggesting by this that you used something metaphorical?

What might that be, pray tell?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Madoff
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2008, 11:23:38 AM »
Not so much metaphorically, but in general, such as in windfall profits, when it was already explained to you, numerous times already, that we're talking about sudden large sums of $$$$.  When private companies/industries get it, it's "obscene", and must be either taxed or taken for the greater good of society, as declared by someone completely unaffected by their "obscenity".  When universities/schools get it, its perfectly acceptable, and need not be divied up what-so-ever, as declared by someone completely unaffected by it.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Madoff
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2008, 11:54:19 AM »
The fact that you disagree with my interpretation of the term "windfall profits" and explain the definition you favor does not obligate me in any way to accept your definition, as you seem to think.

I do not normally use the term "obscene profits", I prefer the more accurate term "extortionate profits" for those made on $4.50 a gallon gasoline or a $15 charge for one Tylenol tablet. $5 for a bottle of water at a Peruvian festival was also a major ripoff, but less so, because free warm water was availabel.


Universities are not asked to pay taxes on donations because donations to nonprofit schools are tax deductible, like donations to churches and such. If you find this to be unjust, then you should inform your congressperson. N one here is responsible for this affront to your sense of justice.

You seem to disagree with the idea that a university and a for-profit corporation are fundamentally different in their goals and should be treated differently.  I disagree with this. Universities profide a socially beneficial service and should be encouraged to do so.  In countries where this has been disallowed to religious-based universities, there have been no religious based universities until the disallowance has been repealed, which means that the government has had the exclusive role of providing higher education.

 But if this is the case, then there are certainly a lot of religious organizations that should also pay taxes.

If donations were taxed, then this would put an end to such donations, as most such donations are made to avoid paying taxes.  John Q. Philanthropist believes that if he pays income taxes or estate taxes, the money will be used to pay for things less beneficial than the John Q. Philanthropist School of Whatever, so he donates money to the latter.

If the deduction is disallowed, then he would simply pay the taxes, and make no donations. It is my belief that if this were to happen, education would suffer, fewer people would receive a good education and we would mostly all be worse off for it. So I favor the government making a distinction between for-profit and not-for-profit entities. There are some non-profits that seem to be quite profitable for their administrators and do not seem to do a lot of good for their donors, such as some televangelists (Benny Hinn comes to mind), and if I were running the show, I imagine I would examine these with a bit more scrutiny.

This is not really a discussion about how stupid I am because I do not accept your definition of "windfall profits". It is actually a discussion about how you think that universities should not be classified as non-profits, or perhaps how all corporations not be taxed at all on their profits.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."