Author Topic: Iran reels toward popular counter-revolution  (Read 3518 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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Iran reels toward popular counter-revolution
« on: December 28, 2009, 08:17:24 AM »
Iran reels toward popular counter-revolution

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

December 28, 2009

DEBKAfile's Iranian sources reveal that Mir Hossein Mousavi's nephew, Ali Habib, was not shot dead during a Tehran demonstration Sunday, Dec. 27, as reported, but waylaid and gunned down as he left his home. The episode became even more ominous when Iran's security services chief Gen. Radam accused Mousavi of the murder to incite further violence. The opposition fears that the murder of Mousavi's nephew augurs physical liquidations of its leaders.

Monday, Dec. 28, the authorities prevented the young man's body from leaving the hospital for fear of a mass funeral that would get out of control.

The current upsurge of violence across Iran is the most dangerous yet because for the first time demonstrators are turning round to attack security forces, the Revolutionary Guardsmen and Basijj paramilitaries.

DEBKAfile's Iranian sources report that the protesters are snatching their tormentors' nightsticks and other weapons as well as hurling firebombs.

To fend off the furious masses, whose numbers are swelling into tens of thousands and more, security forces are firing live bullets and tear gas in the crowds since Sunday, Dec. 27.

The death toll, admitted by the authorities as more than 15, is most likely in the 30-40 range; the number of injured is around 250 and detainees some 2,000, far more than the official figure of 300.

All these figures are hard to pin down because the violence has spread across Iran to places never before affected, such as Tabriz, Mashhad, Shiraz and Babol on the Caspian coast. Journalists are barred from covering the unrest.

Wherever dissent has sprung up, crowds of anti-government protesters have seized control of the streets and made government forces pull back. The most important flashpoint outside Tehran is Isfahan in central Iran, because it is the birthplace of the late Grand Ayatollah Ali Montazeri, the dissidents' spiritual mentor. His death a week ago spurred the current wave of unrest and gave the protesters the first spiritual icon for their struggle. Although dead and departed, Montazeri has provided the necessary rallying power missing from their sputtering rallies in the last six months.

Armed with the Montazeri image, the dissidents are not afraid to turn aggressively on the Guards and militiamen or hoist slogans that are no longer confined to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, "the Dictator" whom they accuse of stealing the presidential election but, for the first time, openly defy the supposedly infallible, unelected spiritual leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

The revolutionary Islamic regime in Tehran thus faces its most dangerous threat, an opposition which can no longer be dismissed as foreign-inspired, but whose revolutionary Islamic Shiite credentials are impeccable and who claim greater legitimacy than the corruption-ridden, oppressive clique in office.

The gunning down of the nephew of Mir Hussein Mousavi, seen as an assassination, further stoked the fury raging in the streets of Tehran. Yet Moussavi stood aside as the movement's senior cleric, Ayatollah Mehdi Karroubi, used the opportunity to further question the regime's religious legitimacy by asking: "What has happened to this religious system that it orders the killing of innocent people during the holy day of Ashura?"

DEBKAfile's Iranian sources estimate that the outbreaks can no longer be designated "riots" but the precursor of a popular counter-revolution which will gain momentum as time goes by. It will be extremely bloody and may be protracted because the heads of the current regime will not give the opposition an easy ride to power or let go of their positions without a fight.

Monday, showing they mean business, security forces were ordered to storm the offices of Moussavi and the reformist ex-president Mohammed Khatami and arrest seven of their aides.

They also detained two prominent critics of the regime, according to the pro-opposition Rahesabz website: former prosecutor-general and leading dissident Ayatollah Mousavi Ardabili, former foreign minister Ebrahim Yazdi and Emadeddin Baghi, a human rights campaign and journalist.

Revolutionary Iran's places of detention are notorious hellholes of torture and death which some detainees do not survive.

As for the US and the Europeans, they are seeing proof of the fallaciousness of their policy to refrain from applying undue foreign pressure on Tehran for fear of rallying the Iranian people around the regime. In fact, the opposite is the case; turning the heat on the regime will encourage the Iranian masses to more assertively resist their government and shorten its life.

Russia and China, though jealous of their ties with the current regime in Tehran, will not have missed the large cracks forming in its fabric and have to start taking the new situation into account.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Iran reels toward popular counter-revolution
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2009, 08:20:30 AM »
wow..i didn't think it possible..but maybe the Iranian people will take care of the barbarians
in charge and prevent the need for others to nuke the IslamoNazis in charge of Iran!

Demonstrators record violent Iran protests
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

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Re: Iran reels toward popular counter-revolution
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2009, 02:30:00 PM »
This seems like an eerie replay of the shit that the CIA engineered in Chile to bring about the downfall of the democratically elected Allende government and the rise of the Pinochet dictatorship, which ruled by kidnapping, torture and murder.

Allende fell because he had been suckered into disbanding the workers' militias and had failed to purge the Army.  The "Ahmadinejad" government must ensure the loyalty of the Republican Guard and the basijis and the best way to test it is by ordering them to clear the streets at all costs.  If they're smart, they'll also test the loyalty of selected Army units with similar orders and install a Commissar system if they have not already done so.

Let's be clear about it.  This is, unfortunately, a government of torturers and murderers.  Or, I suppose more accurately, a government that has tortured and murdered.  But the alternative - - a U.S.-dominated government of other torturers and murderers - - would be a fucking catastrophe. 

The one missing piece in this puzzle is, where are the Communists?  There was a very prominent Iranian communist party when the CIA and MI 5 overthrew Mossadegh and brought in the Shah.  The leaders were arrested by the Shah's SAVAK, but released during the Islamic Revolution, then re-arrested, tortured and murdered by the fanatics who ultimately came to power.  Presumably, there would have been a purge of the rank and file, and to some extent there was - - "random" street murders, home invasions, disappearances, etc.  I found it hard to believe the entire Party would disappear that way.  Some escaped to Russia.  Some of them undoubtedly infiltrated the Islamic Revolution (I remember watching some videos of regime propaganda at a friend's home about ten years ago and the style and content were just too similar to Communist propaganda for it to be coincidental) and I really don't know now if they can be a hidden force.

My overall impression is that the regime has learned from history and will deal with the opposition in an appropriate way.  There is no way that the opposition forces today are not inspired, supported, encouraged and/or provoked by U.S. and British interests.  As bad as the existing government may be, it should be able to hold itself together against foreign interference.  But it has a small margin for error.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Iran reels toward popular counter-revolution
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2009, 03:48:43 PM »
IslamoNazi Iran Gvt - Bad Guys
US Puppet Iran Gvt - Bad Guys

One exports terror, wants to wipe Israel off the map, point nuclear bombs at Israel,
Europe, and US if possible, and sends weapons that kill US soldiers on a daily basis.

Any questions as to what most rational Americans would choose as the lesser of two evils?

If you're gonna do business with skunks at least choose a skunk that points away from you!

Hello Earth To Sanity? Over?


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Plane

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Re: Iran reels toward popular counter-revolution
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2009, 11:27:07 PM »
  I do not know anything about the CIA being involved, but if the CIA were not the bumbling anemic  shadow of its former self that it is , it still would be impossible for them to create this much movement out of nothing.

   It is a fact that the Iranian people are unhappy with their government .

     It is a related fact that the government is not produceing or allowing any peacefull means of change in itself.

Michael Tee

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Re: Iran reels toward popular counter-revolution
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2009, 11:53:58 PM »
<<I do not know anything about the CIA being involved, but if the CIA were not the bumbling anemic  shadow of its former self that it is , it still would be impossible for them to create this much movement out of nothing.>>

Yes but you would have said the same thing in 1972 in Chile, when the truckers blocked the highways, when the housewives filled the streets.  These things can be promoted by agitators.  It happened in Chile and it can happen again in Iran.

   <<It is a fact that the Iranian people are unhappy with their government .>>

Depends on how you define "the Iranian people."  Most of the mobs I've seen are middle-class, urban young people.  To what extent the countryside and the urban poor are on-board, I don't know. 

     <<It is a related fact that the government is not produceing or allowing any peacefull means of change in itself.>>

What if they're on the right course?  What if the elections weren't faked?  (The most credible Middle Eastern polling firm three weeks before the vote called the election pretty much as it was officially counted.)  If this government IS on the right course and DOES have the support of the majority, why SHOULD they make peaceful change to mollify the demonstrators, particularly since the demonstrators may well be knowingly or unknowingly serving foreign interests opposed to the Islamic Republic?

Plane

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Re: Iran reels toward popular counter-revolution
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2009, 12:44:24 AM »
      What if the elections weren't faked? 


Then the government was careless with the very precious mandate it won , tragic if the voice of the people cannot be heard .

Why do so few beleive that the election was fairly counted?

This is actually something we need to improve here too , means must be found to make the election so transparent and verified that the people have confidence that that they have really been asked fairly for their consent.

Michael Tee

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Re: Iran reels toward popular counter-revolution
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2009, 01:22:58 AM »
<<Then the government was careless with the very precious mandate it won , tragic if the voice of the people cannot be heard .>>

Aren't you missing the point?  What if the voice of the people WAS heard, in the election, as per the official count.  That would mean that the "voices" brought to us by CU4 are not the voice of the people, but the voice of a CIA rent-a-mob.  IF that were the case, would the government still be "careless with the . . . mandate it won" if it acted on its mandate and repressed the voice of the rent-a-mob?

<<Why do so few beleive that the election was fairly counted?>>

So few of whom?  Of the talking heads on the MSM?  That's easy, they're not independent journalists, they have an agenda, that agenda is the war party's.  Of the blogosphere?   There is a lot of gut-level hatred of the existing regime.  Don't forget, that's the same regime that tortured to death a Canadian journalist, Zahra Kazemi, it's the same regime that imprisoned, raped, tortured and then executed young Bahai women for the "crime" of believing in their own religion, it's the same regime that publicly hanged two teenage boys from a crane for the "crime" of loving each other.  They're a bunch of fucking barbarians.  There's no other way of looking at them.  They're the worst of the worst.  When you hate someone that much, it's easy to believe the worst of them.  If their enemies say they faked an election, then they faked an election.  End of story.  But there are other bloggers who DON'T believe the election results were fake.  Even the Toronto Star, which hates their fucking guts (the Star had broken the story of the Iranian doctor who saw Zahra Kazemi's tortured corpse) had to note that the official election results were pretty close to the polling done three weeks before.  And you had to note that in the first two or three days after the election results were announced, none of the opposition parties claiming a fix were able to say how the fix was accomplished, although they had started screaming "FIX!" even before the polls closed.  The whole thing just had a bad smell to it.

<<This is actually something we need to improve here too , means must be found to make the election so transparent and verified that the people have confidence that that they have really been asked fairly for their consent.>>

What difference would it make, plane?  The fix is in even before the candidates are selected.  In almost every major election, it doesn't matter which party you vote for, they will both deliver the same predetermined foreign policy and many predetermined domestic policies as well.

BSB

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Re: Iran reels toward popular counter-revolution
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2009, 01:50:53 AM »
The CIA can't do anything but try and exploit trends. How much influence they can exert in this situation is entirely unclear. It would only be a guesstimate by anyone.

BTW, I doubt the CIA was ever much more then a "bumbling" "shadow" of a novelist's wet dream.


Plane

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Re: Iran reels toward popular counter-revolution
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2009, 02:02:02 AM »

<<This is actually something we need to improve here too , means must be found to make the election so transparent and verified that the people have confidence that that they have really been asked fairly for their consent.>>

What difference would it make, plane?  The fix is in even before the candidates are selected.  In almost every major election, it doesn't matter which party you vote for, they will both deliver the same predetermined foreign policy and many predetermined domestic policies as well.

Why do you say "almost"?

After all elections the tide still runs up the bay , even if you voted for king Chanute , the water will still be wet even if you voted for the dry party, gravity will still be more onerous for the fat than the thin even if you voted for the fairness in weight party.

Partys that promise peace , with enemys that will not stop fighting , are prone to dissapoint , but this is not because they are insincere , it is because peace is more like Tango than War is , peace is between two but any one can keep a war going on .


Partys that promise equity in distribution ignore the laws of economics and fail as surely as aircraft designers who ignore the laws of fluid flow, "from each according to their ability" needs an army to enforce upon the able and "to each according to their need" removes all incentive to do anything _but_ need.

I beleive that President BHO would indeed like to stop all fighting and make our economy much more socialistic , reality keeps showing up and he is on the job training.

Michael Tee

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Re: Iran reels toward popular counter-revolution
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2009, 02:22:22 AM »
<<Why do you say "almost"?>>

Because sometimes there are domestic issues which the war party doesn't really give a shit about, and the election could determine, for example, if the Federal Government will energetically enforce a Supreme Court ruling on desegregation or abortion rights or gay marriage.

<<After all elections the tide still runs up the bay , even if you voted for king Chanute , the water will still be wet even if you voted for the dry party, gravity will still be more onerous for the fat than the thin even if you voted for the fairness in weight party.>>

Very poetic, but really aren't you just comparing forces of nature with political choices that are much less immutable.  Support for the State of Israel, for example, the rape of an oil-rich country for another.

<<Partys that promise peace , with enemys that will not stop fighting , are prone to dissapoint  . . . >>

The distortion you made there is to portray the decision to make war or peace as that of an "enemy" which is thousands of miles away from you, consists of a handful of fanatics, is much better contained by defensive measures such as airport or seaport security precautions.  The real choice for peace or war is made in Washington not in Kabul or Gaza or Tehran.


<< but this is not because they are insincere , it is because peace is more like Tango than War is , peace is between two but any one can keep a war going on .>>

That is clearly incorrect.  The mouse doesn't choose to fight the elephant.   The mouse doesn't force the elephant to tear down the house and storm the mouse-hole to exterminate the mouse "threat" when mouse-traps are 99 cents each.  That is an elephant's decision.


<<Partys that promise equity in distribution ignore the laws of economics and fail as surely as aircraft designers who ignore the laws of fluid flow, "from each according to their ability" needs an army to enforce upon the able and "to each according to their need" removes all incentive to do anything _but_ need.>>

You'd make more sense if other countries didn't already enjoy what Obama promised and then reneged on.  He wasn't promising the economically impossible, because what he promised is available all over the developed world.  The promise was fully capable of fulfillment, but the will was lacking.

<<I beleive that President BHO would indeed like to stop all fighting and make our economy much more socialistic , reality keeps showing up and he is on the job training.>>

Reality is that the guy went back on his promises and his apologists are now parsing his words to prove that promises were never made.

BSB

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Re: Iran reels toward popular counter-revolution
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2009, 02:51:52 AM »
Airport or seaport security.

I once read the length in miles of just the coast of Maine with all its inlets, and islands, etc.  It was very revealing. You couldn't stop a determined individual from entering this country via its coast if the life of this country depended on it, and someday it just might.

No, for the moment we'll keep our commando operations into Pakistan, from Afghanistan, going. And we'll keep our larger military presence in Afghanistan going also. It's the best platform from which to operate directly against Al Qaeda's, and the Talibans, leadership, we have at the moment. While the Taliban and Al Qaeda are vastly different, the two leadership councils are interchangeable.