Author Topic: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism  (Read 45148 times)

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Amianthus

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #180 on: January 07, 2010, 11:01:06 PM »
Did something get deleted here?  It looks like you are quoting youself.  If that IS what happened, I'm not sure what the "Ouch" is all about. 

The "Ouch" is a link.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Stray Pooch

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #181 on: January 07, 2010, 11:24:11 PM »
Did something get deleted here?  It looks like you are quoting youself.  If that IS what happened, I'm not sure what the "Ouch" is all about. 

The "Ouch" is a link.

OH!  Thank you.  I didn't realize that. 

I am intrigued by the self-described "moderates."  I wonder how many of them really are, and how many just think they are.
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Amianthus

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #182 on: January 07, 2010, 11:57:23 PM »
I wonder how many of them really are, and how many just think they are.

I know I am, because I have positions that piss off both sides.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Stray Pooch

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #183 on: January 08, 2010, 12:26:38 AM »
I wonder how many of them really are, and how many just think they are.

I know I am, because I have positions that piss off both sides.

lol.  I know the feeling.  My ultra-conservative brother thinks I am a flaming liberal, and my liberal daughter thinks I am a Rush Limbaugh clone.  Whaddayagonnado?  But my son defines himself as a moderate because he agrees with the right on some issues and the left on others.  OTOH I know some people who are way left or way right and consider themselves moderate (and moderates as way out on the opposite side's fringe).

I define a moderate position as one which sees the merits of both sides and attempts to accomodate those merits as far as possible.  But that's probably just the staunch conservative flaming liberal in me.
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Rich

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #184 on: January 08, 2010, 12:58:10 AM »
A moderate is someone who let's someone else make up his/her mind for them.

Stray Pooch

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #185 on: January 09, 2010, 04:50:45 AM »
A moderate is someone who let's someone else make up his/her mind for them.


Nonsense.  That would be a partisan.  A moderate doesn't have to please his party elders.
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Rich

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #186 on: January 09, 2010, 10:28:17 AM »
Bullshit. A moderate has no convictions. He's luke warm. Unwilling to take a stand.

Weak.

Amianthus

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #187 on: January 09, 2010, 11:15:53 AM »
Bullshit. A moderate has no convictions. He's luke warm. Unwilling to take a stand.

Weak.

Weak are people who let others define their agenda (partisans).

Moderates take stands, it's just that sometimes the stand is on one side, sometimes it's on the other, depending on the issue.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Rich

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #188 on: January 09, 2010, 11:59:18 AM »
>>Weak are people who let others define their agenda (partisans).<<

You have that exactly backwards. Weak people allow others to form opinions and then pick the path of least resistance. That's a moderate.

Remember, being a Conservative or liberal doesn't mean being in lockstep (well, at least not Conservatives), there is room for differing opinion. Moderates however, don't form their own opinion. They allow others to do it for them.

Amianthus

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #189 on: January 09, 2010, 12:22:41 PM »
Remember, being a Conservative or liberal doesn't mean being in lockstep (well, at least not Conservatives), there is room for differing opinion. Moderates however, don't form their own opinion. They allow others to do it for them.

A moderate is someone who has a differing opinion from the partisan view. A partisan, by definition, is someone who follows the party line, ie, allows someone else to form their opinion.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #190 on: January 09, 2010, 12:33:16 PM »
Bullshit. A moderate has no convictions. He's luke warm. Unwilling to take a stand.

Weak are people who let others define their agenda (partisans).
Moderates take stands, it's just that sometimes the stand is on one side, sometimes it's on the other, depending on the issue.


Sorry ami (& Pooch), gotta shoot that one down.  A moderate, will frequently "moderate" their positons in order to seek compromise (& harmony   ;)  ).  Hardly the 'stand" you would be referring to.  The "stand" comes into play when the decision they finally come to, happens to be different than the other party was hopeful or wanting to see.  Partisans come to their decisions based on their core principals, and will largely stick to those principals, and screw what the party says.  Hardly the notion that they're simply sheep being led
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #191 on: January 09, 2010, 06:45:43 PM »
Bullshit. A moderate has no convictions. He's luke warm. Unwilling to take a stand.

Weak are people who let others define their agenda (partisans).
Moderates take stands, it's just that sometimes the stand is on one side, sometimes it's on the other, depending on the issue.


Sorry ami (& Pooch), gotta shoot that one down.  A moderate, will frequently "moderate" their positons in order to seek compromise (& harmony   ;)  ).  Hardly the 'stand" you would be referring to.  The "stand" comes into play when the decision they finally come to, happens to be different than the other party was hopeful or wanting to see.  Partisans come to their decisions based on their core principals, and will largely stick to those principals, and screw what the party says.  Hardly the notion that they're simply sheep being led

Interesting.

sirs

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #192 on: January 09, 2010, 06:49:48 PM »
Not to be confused with being civil or civility.  No reason one couldn't be a civil partisan or a rude moderate
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Stray Pooch

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #193 on: January 10, 2010, 01:20:43 AM »
Bullshit. A moderate has no convictions. He's luke warm. Unwilling to take a stand.

Weak.

Ridiculous.  A partisan is someone who cannot think beyond the strict bigotry of his mindset.  The reason partisans call moderates weak is because partisans are incapable of processing more than one aspect of an issue.  It is far more simple, and requires far less effort, to take a "stand" (which is to say, rigidly and stubbornly stick to a position) than to consider alternatives.   Partisans confuse rigid thinking with strength.  It isn't.

Moderates take stands too, they just don't take orders from partisans.  I think public prayer should be kept out of schools.  Conservative partisans often think it should be allowed in schools.  I think abortion should be illegal except in cases of rape, incest or health of the mother.  Conservative partisans often insist that there should be no exceptions.   I believe anti-sodomy laws should be repealed.  Conservative partisans often believe they should be strengthened.   I believe the Constitution is a living document, this is NOT a Christian nation and was never intended to be, and that Wiccan chaplains have as much right in the service as Christian ones.  Conservative partisans often go ballistic over those views, even going so far as to call me a "RINO."  My response is, I am a Republican and a Conservative, but I can THINK as well as vote, and if you don't like it, get the hell out of MY party.
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Stray Pooch

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #194 on: January 10, 2010, 01:31:56 AM »
Bullshit. A moderate has no convictions. He's luke warm. Unwilling to take a stand.

Weak are people who let others define their agenda (partisans).
Moderates take stands, it's just that sometimes the stand is on one side, sometimes it's on the other, depending on the issue.


Sorry ami (& Pooch), gotta shoot that one down.  A moderate, will frequently "moderate" their positons in order to seek compromise (& harmony   ;)  ).  Hardly the 'stand" you would be referring to.  The "stand" comes into play when the decision they finally come to, happens to be different than the other party was hopeful or wanting to see.  Partisans come to their decisions based on their core principals, and will largely stick to those principals, and screw what the party says.  Hardly the notion that they're simply sheep being led

There is no sin or weakness in compromise.  In fact, it is usually preferable to strict partisanship.  I let nobody make up my mind for me.  I look at the facts and decide what makes sense based on my own experience.  As an example, let's look at gay marriage.  I am completely against it because of my religious convictions and personal values.  But I see the dichotomy of believing firmly in the American principle of freedom of choice and the conservative principle of limited government and still keeping to my position on Gay marriage.  In spite of my revulsion towards gay behavior, I DO believe that if two people love (or think they love) each other it's none of my business (or the government's business) and we should stay out of it.  If they want to live together, have sex with each other and combine their assets, I see no compelling reason why the government should get involved.  But, in spite of that, I draw the line at marriage.  Have civil unions or committments or whatever else you want to call it, and let health benefits, hospital visitations and probate all recognize those contracts as valid.  But marriage is a sacred ordinance and it should not be imposed by the government on anyone.  So I come to the conclusion that where gay marriage comes into play, I have to deicde on one principle or another.  I choose to say civil unions are acceptable but marriage is not.  That's a compromise.  If I had unrestricted rule I would probably ban all gay activity, but that would be tyrannical. 

Like I said, Ia partisan has to follow the partisan line.  A moderate gets to examine the facts and go where he will.  That's a pretty good definition for freedom.
Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .