Author Topic: Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?  (Read 3876 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The_Professor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?
« on: January 09, 2010, 02:01:54 PM »
Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?

Posted: 01/8/10 

Over the past week or so, much ink has been spilled over the pros and cons of airport security techniques as diverse as body scanners (child porn?), passenger profiling (racist or just plain smart?) and the prohibition on bathroom breaks during the last hour of the flight (cruel and unusual punishment?). Surprisingly, what people aren't talking so much about are the methods employed by the country that pioneered and perfected aviation security, Israel.

Israel has lived with terrorist threats since its inception as a nation-state. A fascinating article in The Toronto Star last week provided a detailed explanation of the multi-tiered, incredibly effective and -- by all accounts -- remarkably efficient system that the Israelis have devised to both detect and manage security threats at Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport. Despite facing dozens of potential threats each day, that airport's security has not been breached since 2002, when a passenger mistakenly carried a handgun onto a flight. The kicker: There aren't even long lines.

Here's how it works: From the moment you drive into the parking lot of the airport from one of two entrances, armed guards are there to monitor your car and ask you two questions: How are you and why are you here? Once inside, more questions follow as you wait in line to check in, accompanied by hand inspections of your bags when security personnel deem that wise. Finally, there's a layer of scanners and metal detectors. At all stages of the process, the Israelis employ profiling, but it's not profiling based on race, but on behavior. They are looking for things like body language and profuse sweating and other signs of unease. Crucially -- and in contrast to the United States -- your bag remains with you until your security check is complete, and you do the security check before you obtain your ticket, not after.

What really distinguishes the Israeli security measures, however, is the extensive use of questioning. It's not just the casual "Have your bags been with you since you packed them?" sort of thing. It is, instead, detailed and probing and -- significantly -- once the security official starts asking you questions, s/he will never once take his eyes off of yours. This can, of course, be disconcerting. When I attended a wedding in Israel a few years back, a friend of mine -- young, single, male and traveling with two different passports, one British and one Australian -- was detained for several hours by the airport security team. Among other things, they asked to see all of the photos he'd taken on his trip and asked him why he didn't appear in any of them. (Answer: He was taking the pictures). Another friend was asked to give the security officials a pair of her jeans . . . to keep. They never told her why.

There are several reasons to think that moving towards the Israeli model would be superior to the sorts of measures that the U.S. and the U.K. have begun to implement in recent weeks. For starters, as Ria points out, profiling people by country is not a sure-fire way to screen all would-be terrorists. By enflaming the embers of anti-Islamic sentiment, this tactic could actually incite more people to commit acts of terror out of sheer resentment, rather than contain such acts.

It's also not clear that the best measure of the effectiveness of our airport security apparatus is the number of thwarted attacks, as is often thought to be the case. The best measure of our security is actually the number of attacks that aren't even attempted because would-be perpetrators fear being caught. That's counter-factual, and so it's impossible to know for sure. Still, looking at the ratio between the number of people who've said explicitly that they'd like to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and the number of attacks occurring at Ben Gurion over the last few decades, you'd have to say that the Israeli strategy seems to be working in this regard.

There are, to be sure, a number of costs to so-called Israelification. The difference in scale between the size of Israel and the U.S., for example, is enormous. By American standards, in terms of passengers served, Ben Gurion is like a busy regional airport on the order of Sacramento. So implementing Israeli-style security measures nationwide would be quite a feat.

For one thing, retraining employees at the Department of Homeland Security and the Transportation Security Agency along the lines of the Israeli model -- and both entities are already organizationally challenged -- would be both labor-intensive and expensive.

Finally, if Jan thinks civil liberties issues are involved in America's newest watch lists and security measures, those pale in comparison to the kind of liberties you'd need to give up were this scenario enacted (see above on photos and jeans). "Intrusive" would get a whole new meaning, something Bonnie got a taste of two years ago.

To be clear, I'm not advocating a full-scale Israelification for the United States' airports (although the U.K.'s smaller size makes it a much better candidate). But if we really want to talk turkey where airport security is concerned, we should certainly be at least considering it.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/01/08/airport-security-is-israel-the-answer/?icid=main|aim|dl4|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.politicsdaily.com%2F2010%2F01%2F08%2Fairport-security-is-israel-the-answer%2F
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Kramer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5762
  • Repeal ObamaCare
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2010, 03:48:57 PM »
I didn't even read the article

the ANSWER IS YES WE NEED TO DO WHATEVER ISRAEL IS DOING -- CLEARLY IT WORKS!

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2010, 11:08:27 PM »
The world's busiest 30 airlines by 2009 passenger traffic are listed in order here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_busiest_airports_by_passenger_traffic

Israel is nowhere on the list.  15 of the top 30 are in the U.S.A. and the rest are distributed as follows:  US 15, UK 2, China 3,  Japan 1, France 1, Germany 1,  Spain 1,  Netherlands 1,  Dubai 1,  Thailand 1,  Singapore 1, Indonesia 1, Italy 1; the no.1 spot is Atlanta with 66.5 million and the no. 30 spot goes to Minneapolis-St. Paul, with 25 million.

I think the U.S. would have a pretty tough time staffing its airport security forces with the necessary numbers to do an Israeli-style Q&A effectively on their volume of passengers.  At minimum wage or whatever they're currently paying, it'll be a major disaster.

The_Professor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2010, 12:48:51 PM »
MT, you make a valid point. Perhaps a surcharge on every ticket purchased and use those funds to pay for adequate measures?
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2010, 12:56:16 PM »
Perhaps we need to reacquaint ourselves with the notion that life has risks and that bad things can happen at any time.

I don't see why we should give up any more of rights or our dignity when we enter an airport than we do when we get on the road, or go to the grocery store.



The_Professor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2010, 12:59:55 PM »
So then, WHO determines this level of risk? Or, rather, who SHOULD?
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2010, 01:40:31 PM »
So then, WHO determines this level of risk? Or, rather, who SHOULD?

I get to decide the level of risk that is acceptable to me. If i think that flying is not worth the risk, then i will drive or take the train.

But because there is more of a chance of me dying on the road than there is of me dying in a shoe bomb attack on an airplane that DOES NOT mean that I should be stripped search each time I decide to go buy a loaf of bread.

And yes potential victims are concentrated in an airplane bombing but i would think there are just as many potential victims at the checkout lines of a grocery store on a a payday friday.

I also bet you that more people have been arrested for drug possession discovered by the TSA than potential terrorist plots have been thwarted. So is Homeland Ssecurity for the War on Terror or an end around in the War on Drugs.

Never let a good crisis go to waste.












Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2010, 07:55:22 PM »
In answer to the Professor, we're already paying surcharges for security.  My last Air Canada ticket, Toronto-La Guardia round trip, Dec. 09, carried the following charges:

"CA" - Canada Security Charge -  $7.94  (federal gov't)
"YQ" - Carrier Administration Service Charge - $54.00 (not a tax but an airline surcharge for security and/or fuel)
"XT" - Combined taxes, fees, charges and surcharges - $84.65

Although the ticket promises a further breakdown below these figures, there follows 3 or 4 coded lines, which are complete gibberish to anyone not knowing the code and which may or may not be the promised "breakdown."    No other break-down is provided.

Somewhere on the internet there is probably a site which explains the significance of CA, YQ, XT and similar designations, but I gave up trying to find it after a few attempts.

BT, I have a choice of driving 10 to 12 hours each way to New York in any season, winter included, going four to six times a year, or taking a flight of about 1.5 hours each way.  It's a no-brainer.  Very few people consider risk a factor in deciding whether to drive or fly.  The relevant factors are cost and the convenience of flight versus the tedium of driving.  At the same time, nobody having any responsibility for highway traffic safety ever took the attitude that risk is a part of life.  Annual highway fatalities were over 50,000 a few decades back, and IIRC, they've been reduced by about 20% since then through improvements in design of roads and vehicles, and regulation of traffic, drivers and vehicle repair.  I'm confident that in the next 20  years there will be dramatic improvements in highway traffic safety though further innovation.

Consequently, I don't advocate a fatalistic view of airline safety.  The thought of somebody briefly viewing my or my wife's body through some kind of scanning device in the few seconds it takes to pass through security is a minimal invasion of our "privacy" which I am prepared to tolerate and even pay for if there is a reasonable chance of it improving my flying security without damaging my health.

I think there has to be comprehensive study to determine how the scan would improve security over the existing procedures and equipment and also ensuring that our bodies are not repeatedly exposed to harmful radiation.  At this point I'm not convinced that the proposed scanners, already in operation in the UK and parts of Europe, are harmless, but I kind of trust the Europeans more than the Americans not to be stampeded into hasty, life-endangering action in the name of security, so if they're using them, it's probably OK.  Anyway, "privacy" is the least of my concerns when my life's at stake and there's no other realistic alternative of getting where I need to go.

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2010, 06:38:49 PM »
"XT" - Combined taxes, fees, charges and surcharges - $84.65

Gah, that's outrageous. I recently bought 2 round trip tickets to Florida:

Airline Ticket Cost:        $155.00
Airline Ticket Taxes & Fees:     $41.30

Looks like your taxes and fees are more than double mine for a shorter trip.

BTW, the "XT" code just means that 3 or more taxes and fees have been lumped into one category. The CA is from your government (IATA code for Canada Air Travellers Security charge), and the YQ is from Air Canada (YQ is IATA code for "airline use").

All IATA codes are found here.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2010, 12:40:53 AM »
I know we pay more if we leave from a Canadian airport.  Sometimes we drive to Buffalo just to catch a Jet Blue flight to New York.  Saves money, even after airport long-term parking, tolls, etc. but it's a pain in the ass to drive, esp. in winter.  Especially if you get held up at customs crossing the border.

Incidentally, the distance is not the sole determining factor in the ticket price.  For instance, leaving Toronto a week from now and returning a week after that, best Travelocity senior's price to New York is $284, to Ft. Lauderdale, $260.  Factors such as volume also influence price.

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2010, 11:37:05 AM »
Incidentally, the distance is not the sole determining factor in the ticket price.  For instance, leaving Toronto a week from now and returning a week after that, best Travelocity senior's price to New York is $284, to Ft. Lauderdale, $260.  Factors such as volume also influence price.

What's the "non-seniors" price? I don't get that discount (but my wife might, I'll have to check...)
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2010, 11:52:17 AM »
Incidentally, the distance is not the sole determining factor in the ticket price.

And that depends as well. Sun Country Airlines, a Minnesota airline that flies Minnesotans to warm destinations has a travel club. The pricing for club members is pretty simple: Domestic destinations: $39 + $0.10 / mile. International destinations: $89 + $0.10 / mile. Club membership costs $17 / month (for a couple, it's $12 / month for singles). If you travel to one of their destinations on a regular basis, it can be very worthwhile (I figured two trips to Florida / year for my wife and I will more than recover the club dues). Lots of retired folks around here are members. The flights are similar to chartered airlines, so the planes are rarely fully booked. It's an interesting business model.

Also, because the airplanes are rarely full, and the cost model is so simple, you can literally show up at the airport right before the flight leaves and get on, it won't cost you any extra for being a "last minute" flight.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 11:55:32 AM by Amianthus »
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2010, 04:49:06 PM »
<<What's the "non-seniors" price? I don't get that discount (but my wife might, I'll have to check...)>>

Sometimes, when I bothered to check, there was NO difference.  Some unsuspecting seniors probably check the senior box without bothering to do a double-check, and just assume that whatever the "adult" price is, it's higher, and they're getting a deal.  I never double-check any more, but I probably should - - who knows, maybe the bastards are actually charging MORE for seniors and not telling.

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2010, 04:58:39 PM »
Those travel clubs come and go.  There was one operating out of the Detroit airport, Worldwide Sportsmen's Club, which had a huge Toronto following, but it's about a 230 mile one-way drive to Detroit, so they used to organize train rides as well.  We went with them once to Acapulco and once to London, both package deals, the London one also including casino admissions and three West End theatre shows in addition to airfare, hotels and transfers.  Typically, these guys get too big for their britches and then suddenly go bust, leaving planeloads of passengers stranded wherever they fly to.  Without exception, they keep selling tickets and memberships right up to the hour they have to leave their passengers stranded.

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Airport Security: Is Israel the Answer?
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2010, 05:00:13 PM »
I usually just use the Priceline bid feature. I go and I want to go to this place, on these dates, here's what I'm willing to pay. And I either get it or not. It's rare that I need to go somewhere on specific dates, and am willing to pay a premium for those tickets. And most of the time, it's business travel, so I just pass on the cost of those tickets to my client.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)