Truths We Dare Not Speak

[Universe Prince]

Which does not sound like a plan for making immigration easier.

[BT]

No but it does sound like a plan to make immigration manageable.

[Universe Prince]

It sounds like a plan for more illegal underground activity to me. But that is what he was complaining about in the first place.

[BT]

No i believe he was saying that illegal immigrants should be treated like all other criminals.

[Universe Prince]

I don't see how that contradicts what I said.

[BT]

And i don't see how what he proposes makes legal immigration harder.

[sirs]

<<So yes Congress went Dem and the economy co-incidently went south , I make the connection , you can't>>

The only connection you seem to be able to make is "GOP = good," and "Democrats = bad," even when the ship of state is slipping under the waves after a Republican had been steering for the past eight years.

Naaa, that's left to the Obama cool-aide folk who can see no wrong in the chosen, except when he's not being socialist enough.  No one denies that Bush's policies facilitated the housing bubble burst.  No one denies that Bush was fiscally irresponsible with what he allowed congress to spend.  No one denies that Congress sat therr, watching that housing bubble, doing nothing, outside of the Democrats actively RESISTING any possible fixing to Fannie & Freddie, that might have staved off the collapse.

But at least the downturn was under some control. 

Until Democrats took over majority control of congress, opening up the spending spickets, and kicking the "abyss" can down the hill.  Then Obama came in, and that can has now dropped over the cliff, in a near free fall, unlikely to see any substantive economic recovery for years, if not decades.  It's called a timeline of events and FACTS

Maybe, just maybe, the election of brown for Mass Senate, MIGHT put a floor under the can. 

[Plane]

<<if you think that the Bush presidency was bad  three years ago when the Democrats took over Congress . . . >>

Ah, no, that is not what I said.  I'm not fixated on "three years ago when the Democrats took over Congress."  Bush was still the President then, still controlled the executive branch, and the Democrats did not have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. 

Of course not you are fixated on a point in time that you chose.

That point in time does not coincide with a real change in the economy.


I note that for Bush your attitude is that, it happened on his watch , it is his.

But what happens on Obamas watch has roots eight years deep.

Deepen those roots and see that many important things happen that the President doesnot order.
The dot .com bubble burst months before Clinton left office and irrational exuberance was over.
Bush struggled with a sinking economy untill 9-11 when a national tragedy harmed the banking industry (yes Virginia Banks do create real value) and for most of his presidency had better employment numbers than Clinton did , now what makes more diffrence , more people makeing exuberant money on the stock market on electronic IPOs or more people haveing Jobs?

Now for Obama my attitude is , it happens on his watch, it is his.

[Michael Tee]

Poor plane.  Of course, I see your dilemma.  The power resided with the GOP for the whole of the eight years of his two terms. 

So you need to jettison some of those GOP years and make them Democratic years.  Nothing easier than to pick a fake point of "change" from GOP  to Democratic control, then Bush only becomes responsible for the first six years of the two terms and the Democrats responsible for everything that happened starting from January 07.

Not buying it, plane.

And don't try to compare Bush with Clinton either, even on economic crashes.  The dot.com bust was survivable, the collapse of the big brokerage and finance firms was not.  Clinton left a healthy surplus in the Treasury, which Bush turned into a gaping hole in the ground.

[Plane]

Poor plane.  Of course, I see your dilemma.  The power resided with the GOP for the whole of the eight years of his two terms.  

So you need to jettison some of those GOP years and make them Democratic years.  Nothing easier than to pick a fake point of "change" from GOP  to Democratic control, then Bush only becomes responsible for the first six years of the two terms and the Democrats responsible for everything that happened starting from January 07.

Not buying it, plane.

And don't try to compare Bush with Clinton either, even on economic crashes.  The dot.com bust was survivable, the collapse of the big brokerage and finance firms was not.  Clinton left a healthy surplus in the Treasury, which Bush turned into a gaping hole in the ground.

Subtract the SS taxes from Clintons "surplus" , and it disapears.

and that is actually what is going on .

[Plane]

Poor plane.  Of course, I see your dilemma.  The power resided with the GOP for the whole of the eight years of his two terms. 

Which is not true is it?

[BT]

The GOP controlled the house for 6 years and the senate for 4

[Michael Tee]

I think the bottom line is that Bush and the GOP determined what was going to happen in America for all of eight years, not the Democrats.  For the last two years of the eight, the Democrats had control of one house of a bicameral legislature.

[Amianthus]

For the last two years of the eight, the Democrats had control of one house of a bicameral legislature.

For the last two years, Democrats had control of BOTH houses of a bicameral legislature.

[Universe Prince]

And i don't see how what he proposes makes legal immigration harder.

Did I say what he proposed would make immigration harder? No, I did not.

What he proposes may or may not make immigration more difficult, without more details knowing is impossible. But as best I can tell, his plan would not make immigration less difficult than it is now. Since immigration is now harder than it used to be, and one of Mr. Hanson's complaints is that immigrants in the past used to more often come here legally, I said he is being hypocritical on this issue, and so far I have no reason to change my position on that.