Author Topic: The Lynch-Mob Mentality  (Read 1532 times)

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Michael Tee

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The Lynch-Mob Mentality
« on: February 07, 2010, 09:15:59 PM »
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/02/05/lynch_mobs/index.html

An interesting opinion piece by Constitutional lawyer Glenn Greenwald on the execution of American citizens determined to be "terrorists"  by the executive branch without trial or appeal anywhere in the world beyond the borders of the U.S.A.  The comparison between the panic engendered today by the word "terrorist" and the panic engendered in the 18th century by the word "witch" was striking - - in both cases, public hysteria demanded the abrogation of traditional legal safeguards for the accused, but as Greenwald points out, even in the 18th century, the alleged witches were still put on trial.  The so-called "lynch-mob mentality" trumps all reason, logic and fairness.  The idea of "war" is a similar enabler of American blood-lust.  Even though there is no battlefield emergency in which lives can be gained or lost in a fraction of a second, the idea (ludicrous in fact) that America is "at war" with an idea or a tactic ("terrorism") justifies the killing in cold blood by Americans abroad by their own government.

The article points out the absurdity of the entire line of thought that has led to such ludicrous and criminal results.

BT

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Re: The Lynch-Mob Mentality
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2010, 09:47:03 PM »
So who is Obama's John Yoo?

Michael Tee

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Re: The Lynch-Mob Mentality
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2010, 10:05:08 PM »
Obama.

BT

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Re: The Lynch-Mob Mentality
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2010, 10:09:41 PM »
Quote
Obama.

?He who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client?.

Michael Tee

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Re: The Lynch-Mob Mentality
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2010, 10:18:19 PM »
I won't disagree with that last comment, but being President of the U.S.A. does some funny things to your head.  Maybe it's something in the White House water.

BT

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Re: The Lynch-Mob Mentality
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2010, 10:34:28 PM »
Of course, Obama being the constitutional law lecturer he is, he might truly believe that the life and death sentence decisions are part of the commander in chief powers explicitly stated in the constitution. In which case all this hand wringing is much ado about nada.


Plane

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Re: The Lynch-Mob Mentality
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2010, 10:37:29 PM »
  I wonder when anyone shot in wartime got to demand a trial first?

    Generally if you join one of the armies you can expect one of the other armies to shoot at you when they can as long as the war lasts.

    The Al Quieda doesn't even restrict itself in this , anyone on earth can be a legitamate target of terrorism. Our best bet is to kill them off at a rate that overcomes their recruiting .

      Even the ones that are citizens of the US or allied Countrys.


      Frankly I am not getting your point, since when have we held a trial before each killing in a war? What would a trial for the accused be like ? Can we put armed men in combat on trial?

     Aren't you simply being silly?

Michael Tee

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Re: The Lynch-Mob Mentality
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2010, 10:53:02 PM »
<<I wonder when anyone shot in wartime got to demand a trial first?>>

Not in the course of a battle, but these powers to kill or assassinate are not battlefield powers.

<<Generally if you join one of the armies you can expect one of the other armies to shoot at you when they can as long as the war lasts.>>

Yes, again you are referring to battlefield conditions, there are two sides, each is shooting at the other and both are wearing uniforms to distinguish themselves.

<<The Al Quieda doesn't even restrict itself in this , anyone on earth can be a legitamate target of terrorism. >>

Yes, but you will notice that the Greenwald article was not a complaint about  what al Qaeda does to U.S. citizens, but a complaint about what the U.S. Government does to U.S. citizens.

<<Our best bet is to kill them off at a rate that overcomes their recruiting .>>

No, actually, your best bet is to see why they are determined to kill Americans and if there is anything that Americans can do that will stop pissing them off to such an extent.  It'd be a lot less costly too. 

<< Frankly I am not getting your point>>

THAT'S for God-damn sure.

<< . . .  since when have we held a trial before each killing in a war? >>

One of my points is that we are not talking about "each killing" in a war.  We are talking about a targeted assassination, not a battlefield shoot-out.

<<What would a trial for the accused be like ? >>

The guy would be faced with evidence against him, that he is in fact an "enemy combatant" as Dennis Blair alleges he is, his lawyer would cross-examine Blair's witnesses, and put his own witnesses up to testify and be cross-examined in their turn, then counsel for each side would argue their case to the judge, then the judge would decide if this guy was in fact an enemy combatant as Blair had alleged he was.

<<Can we put armed men in combat on trial?>>

Good question.  Have you ever heard of participants in a shoot-out with the police being captured and put on trial?  Are you claiming that the U.S. military is somehow incapable of taking prisoners? 

The answer is yes, you CAN put armed men in combat on trial.  Furthermore the answer is that very few of the victims of extraterritorial assassination will be "armed men in combat," but rather American citizens NOT engaged at the moment in combat of any kind, suddenly targeted by drones and assassinated because of what the civil servant Dennis Blair thinks they are guilty of doing.

<Aren't you simply being silly?>>

No, the person being silly is YOU, because you persistently assume that the American victims of this unprecedented shoot to kill policy are going to be killed in active combat with guns in their hands, when all evidence is that they will be tracked down, stalked and assassinated when NOT engaged in combat.  Either deliberately or through pure ignorance you are persistently misrepresenting the problem that has arisen.

Plane

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Re: The Lynch-Mob Mentality
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2010, 11:03:53 PM »
  Once again you express a large preference for President Bush's methods over President Obama's MO.

     Takeing prisoners isn't happening anymore , much less headache to kill them.


     I think you main problem is with the parsimony of Al Queda , who are too cheap to put their fighters in uniform.

      Are you really reccomending that all of the Al quieda be captured ? I would go for that if you could point out a reasonable way to accomplish it.

        Or are you saying that only the American ones should be captured? That pleases me as an American to save for us the exceptional treatment , we are exceptional people.

       Either way , could we possibly hold the trials in Canada? None of the states seem to want to host them , Halifax would be good , that Citadel could be converted to a prison quite well.

Michael Tee

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Re: The Lynch-Mob Mentality
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2010, 12:22:45 AM »
<<Once again you express a large preference for President Bush's methods over President Obama's MO.>>

I think that opens up a whole new topic here (how was Bush dealing with A, B, C and how is Obama dealing with A, B, C and then which of A, B, or C (if any) has any relationship to the targeted assassinations of American citizens by their government.)  So I'm just not going to respond now to that observation.

<Takeing prisoners isn't happening anymore , much less headache to kill them.>>

I'm not sure what your source is for that, but I am sure that there are still lots of prisoners being taken in Afghanistan and Iraq.  Evey night, people's doors are kicked in and people hauled off for "interrogation" (i.e., torture,) imprisonment and "disappearance" (i.e., murder.)  Plenty of prisoners, plenty of jails, plenty of torture chambers, plenty of "black sites."


<<I think you main problem is with the parsimony of Al Queda , who are too cheap to put their fighters in uniform.>>

My only problem in this thread at least is the murder of American citizens by their own government without trial, judge or jury.

<<Are you really reccomending that all of the Al quieda be captured ? >>

No, I'm recommending that before Dennis Blair is allowed to decide that an American citizen should be put to death, that that American should be tried and convicted in a court of law.  Radical concept, eh?

<<I would go for that if you could point out a reasonable way to accomplish it.>>

Well, "that" is about 180 degrees off topic, so I think I'm going to pass on it.

 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 01:10:13 AM by Michael Tee »

Rich

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Re: The Lynch-Mob Mentality
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2010, 12:42:45 AM »
So the Canadian cunt is now an authority on American constitutional law. Really folks, who gives a shit what that commie terrorist says about American law? He disagrees with it first of all. He's a fucking communist. Secondly he wants Islamic terrorist to destroy it.

But let's take the cocksucker seriously. Let's act as if he has a legitimate stake in the outcome. Let's shut up so we have someone, anyone to "debate" with.

Schimdt, you should be ashamed of yourself.

BT

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Re: The Lynch-Mob Mentality
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2010, 12:55:48 AM »
Quote
Schimdt, you should be ashamed of yourself.

It Schmidt.

And why should I be ashamed of your actions?

Rich

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Re: The Lynch-Mob Mentality
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2010, 01:03:59 AM »
Nice try. How in the fuck do you live with yourself? For this? Whatever ever it is you're paying, it goes to support someone who wants your son dead.

Yeah Billy Schmidt (that right?) tell your son how you drop the dime so a America hating terrorist can have a voice.

Let me know what he says. Better yet, ask one of his buddies. They won't feel obligated to back up your stupid ass.

BT

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Re: The Lynch-Mob Mentality
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2010, 01:26:49 AM »
It is true my son is sworn to protect the constitution, but this forum is not subject to that.

This forum is designed to facilitate the free exchange of ideas. Those that i may agree with and those that i may not.

It's a shame that vitriol is more common than idea exchange, but whatcha gonna do?

I decided awhile ago i wasn't going to waste my time policing this forum. I like it better when members police themselves.



Rich

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Re: The Lynch-Mob Mentality
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2010, 01:29:53 AM »
Alright then.

It is what it is. So hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride.