The Islamic Republic is alive but not well

[Xavier_Onassis]

I fail to see why sirs is too damned lazy to simply key in the word Mossadegh, but here is a link to an article about what pretty much anyone who presumed to know anything about US foreign policy knows:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

[sirs]

The issue isn't what the CIA has done in the past, such as in 1953, or what sirs can do to try and back up something Xo claims.  

The issue here is your acute inability to answer even the simplest question, such as who this "everyone" is, or to validate how the CIA & MI6 are CURRENTLY financing some Mossadegh overthrow

Care to step up to the plate, or continue watching your credibility gap surpass even 'the chosen"?

[Michael Tee]

<<The world does not "walk" to it's customer base....>>

Economics 101:  Nobody walks any more in international trade.  The seller ships to the buyer.  The cost of shipping is included in the buyer's cost of goods. 

Economics 101:  The farther the seller has to ship the goods to market, the more it costs the buyer.

Economics 101:  The farther that perishable goods have to be shipped, the higher the cost of refrigeration, which is also added to buyer's landed costs.

<<this isn't the 1800's....>>

No, that's why it's so surprising to me that Americans still don't seem to know Economics 101.  Well, some Americans.  Conservative Americans.  Anyone dumb enough to think that a boycott by your biggest and closest natural customer won't hurt you.

<< . . . well maybe in the failure that is Cuba!>>

The "failure" that the World's Onliest Superpower has been trying to bring down for half a century and hasn't done so yet?  THAT "failure?"  The country whose leader survived TEN U.S. Presidents and their countless efforts to assassinate him, invade his country and sabotage his country?  THAT "failure?"  LMFAO - - the failure is obviously the U.S.A.  Cuba without Fidel may or may not succumb to the U.S. efforts to poison the dream, but if it does go down, it won't be long before the U.S. goes down in an even bigger fall.

<<Countries make or break on their own.....no whining about how "it's everybody else's fault" we suck.>>

The only whining I hear is from the World's Onliest Superpower - - the evil Iranians and their evil bomb, the evil Iraqis will destroy us if we don't invade them first, the evil Islamofascists and how terrible they are.  Give me a fucking break.  Nobody whines like Amerikkka whines, and it is really nauseating.  The Cubans aren't whining.  They blame the U.S.A. for their economic hardship and it should be obvious to any thinking person that a massive boycott like that by the closest market and the closest supplier is going to hurt.  Bullshit excuses like "this isn't the 1800's" or "the world does not walk to its customer base" are just absolute nonsense - - if the embargo isn't hurting Cuba economically, why the fuck does the U.S. government insist on maintaining it even as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is calling for an end to it?  Why?  Use your fucking head for christ sake instead of spouting meaningless nonsense about whether or not it's the 1800's.  THINK!!

<<Look in the mirror!>>

Good advice.  Try it some time.

<<If a country can't sell to one country and it's got any balls....it just moves on to other customers.>>

That's exactly what the Cubans have done.  Obviously the other markets aren't as profitable as the American market.  Or did you think that there's the same amount of profit to be found in each and every market in the world, no matter where it is situated, because shipping costs, transit times for perishable goods and other geographical factors make absolutely no difference at all in international trade?  Come on, get real.

<<Hell if I had that attitude I still be washing dishes like when I was 15 years old.>>

Bullshit, Big Talker.    If the California State Government passed a law forbidding you to do any business in the U.S.A. and told you to find new customers but they had to be in Latin America, you'd be out of business the same fucking day that the law was passed. 

<<A country doesn't sit around for 50 years crying..."boo whooo we cant sell to the closest country".  Roll Eyes>>

For most of the past 50 years, they traded sugar for Russian oil, they built hotels for European and Canadian tourists and they developed medical schools, a medical profession, and medical product lines which they do in fact sell in alternative markets.  They don't sit around except in your overactive imagination crying boo hoo etc.  And, despite those efforts, the U.S. embargo still hurts.  They aren't crying boohoo (only chickenshit Amerikkkans cry boohoo, Boohoo the evil Iranians want a bomb to kill us with, boohoo evil Saddam is about to nuke our ass, boohoo the Vietnamese attacked our ships in the Gulf of Tonkin) but they know who's fucking them in the ass.  And when the people who are fucking them in the ass have the God-damn nerve to tell them why they're fucked up, then they or somebody for them has to set the record straight.

<<Hello?.....Airplanes...cargo ships exist.>>

Yeah, they do.  How do you think the European and Canadian tourist trade comes to Cuba, by donkey cart?  How do you think they can export the limited amounts of sugar they're able to sell to Canada and other Latin American countries?

<<If you make a good quality product there will be customers....all over the world.>>

It's an AGRICULTURAL country.  Do you think they can make an orange the whole fucking world will have to have?  A grain of sugar that's superior to any other grain of sugar in the whole fucking world?  Why don't you try relating to the real world once in awhile.  They're a small agricultural country of 11 million people.  There is no fucking crop that they can grow that is going to outrank that same crop grown in any other small agricultural country.  AND their cost of agricultural tools, implements, fertilizers, etc. is higher than the same costs for their competitors since they but not their competitors are under a U.S. embargo.

<<The United States is not Cuba's problem....Communism is.

<<Like if the embargo didn't exist Cuba would have been another Japan/South Korea booming with production?>>

No actually it is that DESPITEe the embargo, they are still able to produce a higher standard of living for their citizens than most other Caribbean nations.

<<Yeah sure......lol>>

You should skip the 'LOL" since it's obvious you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

<<Communism stifles ingenuity and incentive.>>

Which I suppose accounts for the dramatic improvement in public education, literacy, health and housing for the Cuban people following the Revolution.

<<It's not brain surgery...would you spend tons of money/research/hard work inventing
something if you knew as soon as it hit big that Michael Tee/Castro/the gvt would rush
in and say "this is now the people's product, you don't own it anymore"?>>

Yeah, actually I would.  Maybe you think every creative intelligent person has to be a greed-driven selfish self-centred animal bastard working only for his own benefit, but you are dead wrong. 


Dr. Jonas Salk, discoverer of the Salk Anti-Polio Vaccine, did not try to patent the vaccine but he worked his ass off to develop it.

<<When news of the vaccine's success was made public on April 12, 1955, Salk was hailed as a "miracle worker", and the day "almost became a national holiday." His sole focus had been to develop a safe and effective vaccine as rapidly as possible, with no interest in personal profit. When he was asked in a televised interview who owned the patent to the vaccine, Salk replied: "There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?">>

(from the Wikipedia article on "Jonas Salk")

Capitalism is founded on selfishness and greed.  That people put up with these selfish greedy ass-holes instead of lining them all up against the wall is simply pathetic.  But it's ludicrous for the selfish bastards to assert that only they can create, that only they can invent.  It's the biggest fucking lie in the world.  Usually what they "invent" is crap like tobacco, alcohol, shitburgers that cause cancer, heart attacks etc., and sell their poisonous shit to the world for profit.  The real benefactors of mankind don't give a shit about the money and they try to cure disease, heal the sick, teach the ignorant, comfort the afflicted and believe me they do not get rich from it.

<<Without incentive....not much happens....which means poverty.>>

What a load of fucking crap.  Your country produces tons of worthless shit, weapons of mass destruction, poisonous crap, and the rich continually get richer while the poor get continually poorer.  In no way does your public health match the public health of most other industrialized nations.  But for millionaires, you have the best health care.  In no way do your public schools match the public schools of most other industrialized nations but for millionaires, you have the best schools.  Capitalism results in the enrichment of the few at the expense of the many.  Poverty is growing in the US, unemployment is growing . . .

<<Look in the mirror!>>

Look in your own fucking mirror!  Look at the wealth of the wealthiest, look at the poverty of your poorest.  Look at 47 million Americans who don't even have health insurance and the tens of millions of others who are underinsured.  Look at the highest incarceration rates in the world, apart from a handful of other countries, at the millions who have turned to crime because of the poverty that is their only alternative.  Capitalism is what has fucked you up, capitalism is what is still fucking you up.

[Plane]

Econ 101.

Pop Quiz today


Bonus question , how did the US get so many "made in China " items?

Are there no good customers in between here and there?

Distance is not what it used to be.


   What I wanted to get at, is, that Cuba has been sheltered from :"exploitation": being isolated from the Exploitation of the US economic machine would seem to be a benefit , if the "exploitation " were a harmfull thing.

   If being seaparated from the exploitation of the US is a benefit then the Economys of Cuba and North Korea should lead the world.

   

[Michael Tee]

<<Bonus question , how did the US get so many "made in China " items?>>

It's called "economies of scale," plane.  If I have to make my own glass test tube by getting glass, heating it, blowing it, shaping it, the production cost of that one item are probably going to be measured in dollars, and perhaps in hundreds of dollars.  If I have to make 20 million test tubes in a modern factory, the cost per tube gets measured in thousandths of a cent, not in dollars.

China, like Cuba, can (and has) outlawed labour unions.  China has an enormous labour force, unlike Cuba.  Such is the power of economies of scale that what is saved on them will outweigh all freight and in-transit insurance costs.

Cuba has a population of ten or eleven million people, IIRC.  No way can it compete with China on low-cost manufacture of anything because it can't achieve the economies of scale necessary to bring the costs down to rock bottom.

<<Distance is not what it used to be.>>

That is true, but neither is the cost of fuel and neither is the cost of in-transit insurance.  But I would agree with you to some extent, that modern shipping does bring buyers and sellers together.  Nevertheless, China's success is probably due to the minimization of unit cost due to economies of scale.  They can flood the market even with the costs of insurance and freight factored in.

The other thing to keep in mind is the perishable nature of the products of an agricultural economy.  this wouldn't affect Cuba's largest agricultural product, sugar, but it certainly affects most of its other agricultural products.  Faster delivery times makes the product more desirable in the U.S.A. and less desirable in farther markets, where it arrives later.  It's not that the product is unsaleable anywhere else, just that it can command its best prices in the U.S.A.

I find the arguments that are being raised against the effects of the boycott foolish and basically reality-denying.  How can an economy NOT be hurt by an embargo, and especially, how can an island of 10 or eleven million people 90 miles off the shore of a market of 300 million people NOT be hurt by the larger country's embargo?  It is just plain stupid to argue that the embargo can't hurt, and hurt substantially.  Where the hell else are the Cubans going to find a market of equivalent size for their goods, whose products would they be competing with there, and at what increased cost in freight and insurance? 

Furthermore, if the embargo is not hurting Cuba, an island, of ten million people, 90 miles from the U.S.A., then how the hell is America proposing an embargo of Iran, a country of 73 million people which not only possesses numerous sea-ports but shares land borders with Armenia, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Turkey and Iraq?

If the embargo of Cuba is not working serious economic harm upon the island, why hasn't it been called off in the last 50 years?  And why are "sanctions" against Iran being sought by the U.S. from every country willing to listen to their scheming and plotting?


<<What I wanted to get at, is, that Cuba has been sheltered from :"exploitation": being isolated from the Exploitation of the US economic machine would seem to be a benefit , if the "exploitation " were a harmfull thing.>>

You have just confused (a) exploitation of a subservient nation (Cuba prior to the Triumph of the Revolution) by a dominant nation with (b) the opportunity of a truly independent nation (Cuba) to trade with another independent nation.   Cuba is not "exploited" by any of its trading partners and would not be "exploited" in its trading with the U.S., since the overthrow of the puppet Batista regime has deprived the U.S.A. of its means of exploitation.

<<If being seaparated from the exploitation of the US is a benefit then the Economys of Cuba and North Korea should lead the world.>>

Well, again you have been badly confused - - the correct example is that of China: freed by Communism from the exploitation of the U.S. and its Western allies, the Chinese people developed their own resources and prospered mightily by trading their products with their former exploiters.  Same thing has actually happened in Cuba - - free of American exploitation, the people have reached a level of general prosperity unattained by any other Caribbean nation and are trading with other nations independently and all of that has been accomplished in the face of an American embargo.  They would be even further ahead if they were allowed to trade with the U.S.A., but of course the U.S. can never allow that, as they are afraid of the example that Cuba would be able to set.

[Amianthus]

It's called "economies of scale," plane.  If I have to make my own glass test tube by getting glass, heating it, blowing it, shaping it, the production cost of that one item are probably going to be measured in dollars, and perhaps in hundreds of dollars.  If I have to make 20 million test tubes in a modern factory, the cost per tube gets measured in thousandths of a cent, not in dollars.

China, like Cuba, can (and has) outlawed labour unions.  China has an enormous labour force, unlike Cuba.  Such is the power of economies of scale that what is saved on them will outweigh all freight and in-transit insurance costs.

That's why I buy so many fruits and vegetables from New Zealand. They have a huge land area, and a huge labor force to achieve those economies of scale, right?

[Michael Tee]

I've never had the pleasure of grocery shopping in Minnesota, but if it's anything like Canada, the only NZ ag products we buy are New Zealand lamb (usually from a restaurant menu) and Chinese gooseberries, marketed as Kiwi Fruit here.  As far as I know, most of the other produce here, at least in the supermarkets, seems to be locally grown or originates in the U.S.A., Mexico or Chile.  There are some highly niched specialty items from various places, such as dried figs (Turkey and Greece) dates (North Africa) etc.

The New Zealand produce sold here is a triumph of clever marketing strategies, as is their Merino wool.    I do not say it is impossible to find special niches and supply them through clever marketing ideas, just that it's very tough and Cuba may not have reached the same high plateau as New Zealand had in marketing.

Look I am not saying that Cuba has to deal with the U.S. or die.  I'm only saying the embargo is obviously a burden, a drain on their economy.  That is too obvious to merit much argument.

=====================================================================================================================

[Amianthus]

I just ate an apple from New Zealand. And had some clementines from there this morning.

[Xavier_Onassis]

The embargo serves both sides in some way.
The Cubans can blame all the woes of their poor administration on the embarge.

A small, but very wealthy, group of Cubans in the USmakes a fortune on commissions on passports, phone calls, tickets, sending packages and remissions. They contribute mightily to politicians that will keep the embargo in place.

People who have other Caribbean destinations profit because they do not have to compete with Cuba.

[Michael Tee]

<<I just ate an apple from New Zealand. And had some clementines from there this morning.>>

I lost count of how many kinds of apple come from Canada.  I've also seen apples here from France and the U.S.A.  I don't know if Ida Reds really come from Idaho or not.  But I've never knowingly seen a New Zealand apple here.  And I don't know where our clementines come from.  But they are excellent marketers and I don't want to take anything away from them.  As far as marketing goes, they're in a class by themselves.  That "Kiwi Fruit" re-branding was pure genius.

[Amianthus]

I lost count of how many kinds of apple come from Canada.

From Canada? Not too many this time of year.

Though, the best apples in the world are the Honeycrisp (developed at the Univ. of Minnesota and the current state fruit of Minnesota), followed closely by the Pink Lady (developed in western Australia).

Honeycrisp:


Pink Lady:

[Michael Tee]

They look great - - I have to visit the local supermarket anyway today, I'll keep an eye out for them.  Never heard of either one before.  The ones I liked are Macintosh (an Ontario product, in fact you can visit the third-generation descendant of the original tree somewhere on a farm in Ontario,) Red Delicious and Royal Gala, which I think are both from BC.

[Amianthus]

Honeycrisp you probably won't be able to find - out of season and they're hardly grown outside of Minnesota. Look for them starting mid August. Pink Ladies are in season now in the southern hemisphere, so any you find will probably come from Australia or New Zealand. Pink Ladies grown in the US will come in about the same time as the Honeycrisp. They're both firm, with a combination of sweet and tart. Pink Ladies are a bit more tart, Honeycrisps are a bit more sweet. There is another name for the Pink Lady, but I can't remember it off the top of my head - basically any Pink Lady apples that don't meet appearance standards (not the proper balance of yellow to red or with any large blemishes) gets given another name, but they taste pretty much the same.

[Amianthus]

There is another name for the Pink Lady, but I can't remember it off the top of my head - basically any Pink Lady apples that don't meet appearance standards (not the proper balance of yellow to red or with any large blemishes) gets given another name, but they taste pretty much the same.

"Cripps Pink" or just "Cripps".

[Amianthus]

"You may have sometimes seen another variety called Cripps Pink in the shops and noticed the similarity ... it is actually the same variety. In order to preserve the premium appeal of Pink Lady, about 65% of the production which does not meet the standards required for Pink Lady is sold as Cripps Pink instead. The distinction is primarily made on colour intensity and the sugar/acid balance. Whilst this might at first appear to be a cynical marketing ploy, it arguably benefits consumers because it means that the variability of quality of Pink Lady is less than you might find in other varieties."
http://www.orangepippin.com/apples/pinklady.aspx