"Instead of being reactive, we took a proactive approach."

[sirs]

And we won't even get started with the "Bush lied us into war", the "into Iraq for oil", or the "2000 stolen election" garbage, all consistentely shown to be false

[Michael Tee]

<<Ditto with the revolver - it fires just as fast as the .380 semi-automatic handgun he purchased, yet it's also supposed to be less threatening.>>

Now you're just being ridiculous.  Of course the semi-automatic is more threatening than the revolver.  The magazine holds more bullets, so the shooter can kill more people before re-loading.  Also if he carries several pre-loaded magazines with him he can re-load faster than he could re-load the revolver.  Assuming the guy will be stopped or quit before he runs out of victims, he'd be able to hit more victims in the time that he has with a semi-automatic than with a revolver.

[Amianthus]

Now you're just being ridiculous.  Of course the semi-automatic is more threatening than the revolver.  The magazine holds more bullets, so the shooter can kill more people before re-loading.  Also if he carries several pre-loaded magazines with him he can re-load faster than he could re-load the revolver.  Assuming the guy will be stopped or quit before he runs out of victims, he'd be able to hit more victims in the time that he has with a semi-automatic than with a revolver.

Many revolvers hold nearly as many rounds as magazines. My P90 holds 7 rounds in the mag, and most revolvers hold 6 with many holding up to 9. And if he carries either spare loaded cylinders or speed loaders for his revolver, he can reload as fast as a magazine change.

Speed loader for a 9 round revolver:



You need to keep up with technology. Speed loaders have been around for 30 years or more. Most cops who still carry revolvers carry speed loaders as well.

[sirs]

D'oh       

[Michael Tee]

Cut the crap, Ami.  The magazine for the Beretta PX4 Storm carries 20 rounds.

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=106494

[sirs]

In CA, as most other states, it's illegal to purcahse any magazine that carries greater than 10rounds in a magazine, for civilian use

[Amianthus]

Cut the crap, Ami.  The magazine for the Beretta PX4 Storm carries 20 rounds.

Federal law has limited civilian magazines to 10 rounds for a number of years. Also, neither of the handguns he purchased are available with 20 round magazines. One of them is only available with a 7 round mag max.

[Plane]

The Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired September 13, 2004, as part of the law's sunset provision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

Magazines manufactured earlyer were grandfathered in , and this was so many that the total effect of the law was minimal.

This law came and this law went , with no noticeable effect on the rates of crime .

It made high capacity magazines pretty valuable for a while.

I think that High capacity magazines were important in the seige of the Simbionese Liberation Army and The North Hollywood shootout   but I can't think of any other crimes right now that High capacity magazines really influenced much.


Now and then some crime will be facilitated by something that most of the time is harmless.

You know if we were to forbid high capacity cars, many crimes would be hampered.

[Amianthus]

Yeah, forgot about that sunset. However, what Sirs said is correct - many states have also passed similar bans.

[Amianthus]

Looked up the magazine capacities for the handguns he purchased after he went on administrative leave.

Walther .380 PPK/S - 7 round magazine
H&K .45ACP - 8 round magazine

Guess that eliminates the mighty 20 round monsters.

[Plane]

What if he had a very high capacity magazine in the house , and many thousands of rounds?

Would that have proven anything about him?

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/

[sirs]

Looked up the magazine capacities for the handguns he purchased after he went on administrative leave.

Walther .380 PPK/S - 7 round magazine
H&K .45ACP - 8 round magazine

Guess that eliminates the mighty 20 round monsters.

D'OH     

[Michael Tee]

Well, that was a useful discussion and I learned from it.  As I said at the outset, we didn't know enough about the case from the original report as posted here, and now we know a little more.

I still don't buy the idea that the guy didn't become a more efficient killing machine with his new acquisitions.  He tripled his handgun arsenal.  He doubled his long-gun arsenal.  As far as I can see, the semi-automatic rifle probably fires more rounds without re-loading than the shotgun, although we don't seem to have any relevant specs for either one of them, and the semi-automatic hand-gun magazines carry more rounds than the speed-loaders if the guy's old revolver was a typical 6-rounds capacity.  Furthermore, the handgun magazines are more compact and less bulky than speed-loaders and look like faster re-loads.  Press button, old clip drops out, new clip in, lock and you're ready for business.  Speed loader looks like more steps, unlock, shake out cylinder, remove shell casings, insert speed loader, flip cylinder back in place, lock and shoot.  Fuck dat.  Obviously faster re-loads with the semi-automatic.

And we still don't know what the guy said or did to earn the description "very disgruntled."  But of course the police did.

Prince's idea that the cops "talk to" the man to find out more before deploying is kind of disingenuous.  "Sure, officer, come on over.  Do you fellas prefer tea or coffee?" does not exactly provide the assurance one needs when one's life is at stake.  The SWAT team dropped in with the usual precautions, no shots were fired into the guy's home (indicating that SWAT teams are capable of a lot more self-restraint than Prince would like to give them credit for - - Prince seems to see a visit by the SWAT team as synonymous with calling down a napalm strike on the guy's home; maybe he's been watching too many late-night movies)   - -  they were doing exactly what Prince suggested they do - - talk to the guy and investigate.  Only, given what they already knew of the guy, they did it their way, so that nobody got hurt trying to talk and investigate.  Better safe than sorry.

The OPP Constable recently killed in Ontario approaching a very disgruntled armed citizen did not realize at the time that he was armed and disgruntled, but if he had, he presumably would not have followed the Prince protocol for approaching the armed and disgruntled, and he'd still be alive today.

[Christians4LessGvt]

Coolest mailbox in Oklahoma!

How much do you want to bet that this house NEVER gets robbed?!?









 
 

[Amianthus]

Furthermore, the handgun magazines are more compact and less bulky than speed-loaders and look like faster re-loads.  Press button, old clip drops out, new clip in, lock and you're ready for business.  Speed loader looks like more steps, unlock, shake out cylinder, remove shell casings, insert speed loader, flip cylinder back in place, lock and shoot.  Fuck dat.  Obviously faster re-loads with the semi-automatic.

You need to stop getting your "facts" from movies and start getting them from real life. Neither changes are fast without practice. With practice, they take about the same time. (Point revolver up and to the side, release cylinder, cylinder swings out and shells drop out because of gravity. While doing the first, pull out speed loader with other hand. Point gun down, apply speed loader to back of cylinder, push button to load all rounds. Swing cylinder back in.) And, while magazines are slimmer than speed loaders, they're also longer, and can be easily reversed when trying to load them quickly (making them jam).