Author Topic: I wish some of you would get your terms right  (Read 16533 times)

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Michael Tee

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Re: I wish some of you would get your terms right
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2006, 07:51:07 PM »
 <<It's bad enough dealing with Tee's misguided hyperbolic rants of how out of control our military is, or Lanya's op-ed parade of how Bush is a war criminal, so why not actually try applying terms appropriately.>>

1.  Your military is in fact out of control.  It is committing criminal acts never seen in all of WWII on the part of Americans.  It is not obeying the laws of warfare, it is torturing and murdering prisoners and it is covering up the torture and murder of prisoners.  It is massacring civilians and covering up the massacre of civilians.  And not just the military but its civilian "overseers" who have basically given it a blank cheque.  Now whether these truths are stated in business-school numbered-point prose or in "hyperbolic rants" should not carry one one-hundredths the significance of the fact that these things are being done.  It's bad enough that Lanya, and I, and other sane and normal people in this group have to deal with the continual lies and distortions of the rabid right on these topics (to say nothing of the nit-picking that goes along with them as if matters of great significance depended on it) but now we have to be faced with the asinine distraction of defining "torture" as if . . . as long as someone here can point to a worse form of torture not yet committed . . . or not yet KNOWN to have been committed . . . by Americans, then everything short of the most extreme form of torture must be OK.

I have challenged you - - sirs - - REPEATEDLY - - to simply state whether or not the forms of treatment reserved by the "President" as his prerogative to inflict on persons in American captivity - - WHETHER OR NOT YOU CALL IT TORTURE, it makes no difference - - is acceptable if inflicted on Americans captured by the other side.  In your typical gutless fashion, you have so far refused to answer that simple question.  You have dodged, you have evaded, you have come up with snarky little pretexts - - but you have not answered.  And will not answer either because you lack the balls or the intellectual honesty or both.

Instead of answering one simple question, you now have the balls to come up with a new distraction, to define torture.  Dictionaries are full of definitions of torture.  Pick one and go with it.  I see from further back in the thread that definitions of torture were in fact offered to you.  Definitions you didn't accept as presented, you had to tweak and hammer at them until they were refashioned into new, hand-crafted (by you) definitions that, curiously enough, applied to things the (so far, according to you) the Americans have not been proven to commit.  You are of course stacking the deck once again for anyone stupid enough to fall for your childish and pea-brained game.  Don't waste my time or anyone else's with this kind of bullshit, you are merely insulting the intelligence of anyone who pays you the courtesy of reading that drivel. 

We know now you won't answer the simple question that I have repeatedly put to you, and most of us understand why.  Basically it's because even you know at some level of your hate-filled little brain that what Bush wants to do to his prisoners is just plain WRONG.

sirs

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Re: I wish some of you would get your terms right
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2006, 09:03:31 PM »


I have challenged you

And I've answered repeatedly what "I" would do, if I were in charge.  Not sure what more you want

Your military is in fact out of control.  It is committing criminal acts never seen in all of WWII on the part of Americans

I rest my case.    8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: I wish some of you would get your terms right
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2006, 09:24:05 PM »
<<And I've answered repeatedly what "I" would do, if I were in charge.  Not sure what more you want>>

What you would do if in charge was never in issue, never asked. 

The question is really simple:  The "President" reserves the right to interpret, through executive orders based on Justice Department memos, (like the one that calls the Geneva Conventions "quaint and old-fashioned") the right to interpret what the Geneva Conventions mean, for the purpose of instructing troops and CIA operatives how to interrogate prisoners.  Would you be content to see the same standards (which could conceivably permit waterboarding, which the "President" has recently assured the nation is not now being used,) applied to American prisoners by their captors?

sirs

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Re: I wish some of you would get your terms right
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2006, 09:28:10 PM »
Asked and answered already.  I'd have no problem with increasing the amount of interrogative techniques, currently PULLED back by this administration.  I have no porblem with non-physical means of interrogation.  I have no problems with using humiliation as an interrogation technique.    I'm getting tired of answering the same question
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: I wish some of you would get your terms right
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2006, 10:17:45 PM »
<<Asked and answered already.  I'd have no problem with increasing the amount of interrogative techniques, currently PULLED back by this administration.  I have no porblem with non-physical means of interrogation.  I have no problems with using humiliation as an interrogation technique.    I'm getting tired of answering the same question>>

As tactics that can be used by "Islamofascists" on AMERICAN troops, you have no problems with that?  Or are you still talking about what techniques you'd authorize to be used on "Islamofascists?"

Perhaps you might THINK you have answered the question, but your answers just are not clear.

sirs

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Re: I wish some of you would get your terms right
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2006, 11:18:00 PM »
As tactics that can be used by "Islamofascists" on AMERICAN troops, you have no problems with that?

What planet are you typing from, Tee?  You think that Islamofascist terrorists are going to use loud music?  Humiliation maybe??  Try beheadings, try burning alive.  I could only wish to God that they'd use the tactics we use

 ::)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

hnumpah

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Re: I wish some of you would get your terms right
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2006, 11:53:22 PM »
Quote
There's a continued tactic of those with BDS who claim that we "torture", that the Bush administration condones "torture", that those who support our war on Terror and efforts at interrogating captured prisoners advocate "torture".  All despite the continued on-the-record proclaimations that we don't.

Umm-hmm. My younger brother made continued on-the-record proclamations for years that he wasn't using drugs, either.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

sirs

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Re: I wish some of you would get your terms right
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2006, 11:58:17 PM »
My younger brother made continued on-the-record proclamations for years that he wasn't using drugs

My compassion goes out for your brother,..............but so........................?  Trying to imply that I'm lying?  Trying to imply those who support our efforts at taking out terrorists, but draw the line at physical torture are lying??
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

hnumpah

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Re: I wish some of you would get your terms right
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2006, 12:07:04 AM »
Just pointing out that just because you, or someone else, says something, does not necessarily make it so. So relax. If I wanted to call you a liar, I would. I'm very blunt.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

sirs

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Re: I wish some of you would get your terms right
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2006, 12:19:29 AM »
Just pointing out that just because you, or someone else, says something, does not necessarily make it so.

Well, to coin the phrase of many a valley girl........d'uh.  Of course there are folks that say one thing, but are lying about it.  Our former President comes to mind.  Point being, so?  Oh yea, you answered that, just "pointing it out" that people do lie.  We thank you for that bit of updated information.  Perhaps at some point, you or Tee can actually demonstrate when and where our current President is lying about not supporting torture.  And one more time, I'm referring to pysical torture, such as joint dislocations, body piercings, stuff like that.  I, nor many others I'd imagine, consider such things as being made to listen to loud music, or made to wear panties on their head, as "torture"

Now, being made to listen to Al Franken.........then perhaps that would be going too far
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

hnumpah

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Re: I wish some of you would get your terms right
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2006, 12:21:16 AM »
Get over yourself.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

sirs

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Re: I wish some of you would get your terms right
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2006, 12:22:58 AM »
I never knew I could be under myself      :D
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: I wish some of you would get your terms right
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2006, 12:28:53 AM »
Tee:  As tactics that can be used by "Islamofascists" on AMERICAN troops, you have no problems with that?

sirs:  What planet are you typing from, Tee?  You think that Islamofascist terrorists are going to use loud music?  Humiliation maybe??  Try beheadings, try burning alive.  I could only wish to God that they'd use the tactics we use

STILL not answering the question, sirs?  Thanks for an inadvertent demonstration of pure hypocrisy and pure intellectual dishonesty.  And BTW - - do you wish to God that they'd burn the soles of American prisoners' feet?  Because that's the latest atrocity that's surfaced after three years of cover-up.

Amianthus

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Re: I wish some of you would get your terms right
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2006, 12:32:08 AM »
And BTW - - do you wish to God that they'd burn the soles of American prisoners' feet?  Because that's the latest atrocity that's surfaced after three years of cover-up.

As opposed to the current policy of beheadings and burning them alive? Yeah, I think it would be an improvement.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: I wish some of you would get your terms right
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2006, 12:33:43 AM »
STILL not answering the question, sirs?

Well, I had along tome ago, just apparently not to your satisfaction, despite making it crystal clear of my position.  

do you wish to God that they'd burn the soles of American prisoners' feet?

No.  I condemned that one already as well.  Care to keep batting .000?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle