Author Topic: Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?  (Read 9848 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?
« on: April 12, 2010, 12:12:22 PM »
Marxist Andy Stern's Compensation Would Have
Karl Marx Spinning in His Grave


by Kyle Olson

SEIU heavy Andy Stern has often been quoted saying, "Workers of the world unite"
it's not just a slogan anymore. It's the way we're gonna have to do our work."

According to the latest LM-2 financial report filed with the federal Department of Labor,
Stern's 2009 compensation totaled $306,388.  By comparison, the Executive Secretary
to the President, Doris Butler, received a paltry $48,666.

Another strong proponent of Marxist principles in fact, the co-chair of the
Democratic Socialists of America SEIU Executive Vice President Eliseo Medina
took home a cool $242,286.  Fellow frequent White House visitor and SEIU
Secretary-Treasurer Anna Burger $252,724.

Perhaps SEIU's new motto should be: "Socialism For Thee, Not Me"

So Andy, if you aren't willing to run your organization based on the beliefs you
publicly espouse, please don't impose them on us via government policy.  
The government, incidentally, your organization spent more than $60 million to elect.





« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 12:14:54 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Kramer

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Re: Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 02:31:26 PM »
rules apply to people differently.

Michael Tee

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Re: Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2010, 06:29:47 PM »
Last time I looked, the guy was a union head, not a spokesman for a political party.  As long as you gotta earn a living in a capitalist world, there's no point to being a sucker and getting paid less than you're worth.  Had he been the head of a socialist political party, I could understand the feigned outrage.

sirs

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Re: Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2010, 06:53:05 PM »
Ahh, you gotta love this out.  So, unless a Government is run by a declared Socialist or Communist regime, then any demonstrative hypocrisy by those advocating such a policy, while raking in the big bucks, is merely someone getting "paid for what their worth"

Gotta love it   
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2010, 12:13:52 AM »
From what I have read about Stern, he is neither a socialist nor a communist. Quoting a portion of the final sentence of The Communist Manifesto hardly makes one a Marxist. Moreover, Stern is a major donor to the Democratic Party in the United States, which can best be described as center-left with a left-liberal wing. To answer half of the question posted in the title, Karl Marx cannot possibly be pissed since he is deceased. Were he alive I doubt that he would be angry as much as disappointed in those who would mistake bourgeoisie liberalism for actual scientific socialism. He might refer you to The Critique of the Gotha Program so that you may begin to learn some of the difference.

Now to look at Sirs statement:

Ahh, you gotta love this out.  So, unless a Government is run by a declared Socialist or Communist regime, then any demonstrative hypocrisy by those advocating such a policy, while raking in the big bucks, is merely someone getting "paid for what their worth"

The issue is not about a government being run by a nominal regime of one sort or another. The problem here is a lack of understanding of historical materialism. We live in an era dominated by one class which has in itself a dominant economic, political, and philosophical form:

1. Capitalism
2. Liberal Democracy
3. Postmodernism

Clearly this has not always been the case. Prior to the domination of the bourgeoisie class there was a domination of the elite who ruled through feudalism. At one time the plight of the bourgeoisie certainly seemed as hopeless as the plight of the proletariat today (think about the Thirty Year's War). Regardless, one cannot overcome his or her dominant economic, political, and philosophical movements.

In other words, yes I am a Marxist, but I live in a bourgeoisie time. I have a job that deals with a capitalist world. I exist in a liberal democracy, whether I dislike it matters little. I am surrounded by postmodern thought, again, whether I dislike that matters little. Trying to go through life pretending that those three things are irrelevant would be similar to learning Syriac and only speaking it in the United States in all my interactions.

Luckily, a modern Marxist has great recourse to capitalism, liberal democracy, and postmodernism.

Capitalism offers the opportunity to accumulate vast capital, which funds an endless number of possibilities from charity to education to direct action. Liberalism offers freedom of press, assembly, religion, right to bear arms, and numerous other possibilities which makes revolutionary action possible. Postmodernism offers a life of alienation, destructive individualism, selfishness, and crass consumerism pushing us further towards the collapse of bourgeoisie societies. 
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2010, 03:00:46 AM »
Nice rationalization effort, but good to see you none the less, Js.  The liberal bullpen has been taking a shelling, and needed a fresh arm
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2010, 03:29:54 AM »
Thank you and nice touch with the baseball metaphor.

I am as big a fan of Philistine replies as the next guy, but why not try to reply in a more meaningful manner?

Besides, I don't play for the Liberals or the Conservatives. I think of myself as playing for the men and women who actually do some work for a living.  ;)
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Universe Prince

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Re: Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2010, 05:29:52 AM »

Capitalism offers the opportunity to accumulate vast capital, which funds an endless number of possibilities from charity to education to direct action.


And we need to end that because...?


Liberalism offers freedom of press, assembly, religion, right to bear arms, and numerous other possibilities which makes revolutionary action possible.


Classical liberalism, yes. What is commonly labeled liberalism in the U.S. I'm not so sure about.


Postmodernism offers a life of alienation, destructive individualism, selfishness, and crass consumerism pushing us further towards the collapse of bourgeoisie societies. 


It does? Upon what is that conclusion based?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

_JS

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Re: Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2010, 09:25:50 AM »
We need to end it for more numerous reasons than I can list right now. Economic equality springs quickly to mind along with a classless society. The truth is that it will be ended regardless of whether you wish it or not. The bourgeoisie were once a revolutionary class, but no longer. The proletariat is the only revolutionary class remaining and just as the bourgeoisie removed feudalism (and this took quite some time!) the proletariat will remove the bourgeoisie.

I'll have to answer your question on postmodernism at a different time. I'm surprised though, do you find many works showing that postmodernism has led to less depression, less anxiety, less alienation? That crass consumerism has led to fulfillment?

Interesting.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2010, 11:51:13 AM »
You forgot Collectivism


Posted: April 15, 2010

"I'm not exaggerating," said President Barack Obama. "Leaders of the Republican Party ... called the passage of (the health-care reform bill) 'Armageddon.' Armageddon! 'End of freedom as we know it.' So after I signed the bill, I looked around to see if there were any asteroids falling or some cracks opening up in the earth. Turned out it was a nice day. Birds were chirping. Folks were strolling down the Mall."

Post-Obamacare the sun indeed rose in the east, Denny's remained open, and California stayed attached to the mainland. Therefore, according to Obama, Obamacare opponents engaged in baseless fear-mongering. This is an interesting definition of success: Government tax-spend-spread-the-wealth works if, come morning, our cars start.

The corrosion caused by the relentless expansion of the welfare state doesn't work that way. The costs are harder to see, the damage more difficult to discern ? especially given our leftist media/commentary class, which doesn't know Milton Friedman from Milton Berle.

Government, for example, again and again extends unemployment compensation ? oblivious to or unconcerned about its hidden costs. Last December, the then-chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, Rep. Charlie Rangel, D-N.Y., chortled on his website: "I have great news to share with you. The House passed an extension of unemployment insurance and COBRA health benefits last night. Had we not acted, 1 million workers would have lost these benefits at the end of the year."

Lawrence Summers, former treasury secretary under Bill Clinton and current Obama economics adviser, wrote in 1999: "(One) way government assistance programs contribute to long-term unemployment is by providing an incentive, and the means, not to work. ... Unemployment insurance and other social assistance programs (cause) an unemployed person to remain unemployed longer." Had "we not acted," how many people would have taken action and found work?

Similarly, banks and financial firms engaged in "reckless" behavior in part because they assumed ? correctly so ? that government considered them too important or too big to fail. Encouraged by government policy to increase lending to those unable to meet usual criteria, banks made loans to otherwise non-creditworthy borrowers. And "government-sponsored entities," Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, bought these loans with an implicit understanding ? true, it turned out ? that the government would not let Freddie and Fannie fail. What stops bailouts from promoting future counterproductive behavior?

Obamacare guarantees medical insurance to nearly all Americans ? regardless of economic status, willingness to pay or health. But achieving the goal of "universal coverage" ? while supposedly restraining costs ? will require government rationing. A recent front-page New York Times article admits: "From an economic perspective, health reform will fail if we can't sometimes push back against the try-anything instinct. The new agencies will be hounded by accusations of rationing, and Medicare's long-term budget deficit will grow. So figuring out how we can say no may be the single toughest and most important task facing the people who will be in charge of carrying out reform. 'Being able to say no,' Dr. Alan Garber of Stanford says, 'is the heart of the issue.'"

Leftists want to take from the "rich" to "level the playing field" and "close the gap between the rich and the poor." But higher taxes discourage people from taking risks. This in turn creates a disincentive to hire, which means fewer jobs for the non-rich.

The first thing you learn in economics is simple: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
The second thing you learn is this: A lot of people don't believe the first thing.

Things cost money. Government action to deliver them involves trade-offs. Leftists want bigger social programs and greater government regulation over everything from financial services to manufacturing to student loans. But they refuse to see, admit or care about trade-offs.

An economics professor asked his class which of these two scenarios the students preferred.
First scenario: Japan grows at an annual rate of 7 percent, and the Unites States grows at 4 percent.
Second scenario: Japan and the United States both grow at 3 percent. Overwhelmingly, the students chose the second option. In other words, the students accepted their own lower domestic growth rather than allow Japan ? a friendly nation ? to outpace us. In exchange for "equality," they chose an otherwise lower standard of living. They, at least, acknowledged the existence ? and accepted the price ? of the trade-off. If people understood the damage done when government takes from A and gives to B, how many would sign on?

So, is it "Armageddon"?

Collectivism is a bargain that most people ? if they knew the real price tag ? would reject. These trade-offs include lower productivity, diminished initiative, fewer jobs, rewarding reckless behavior and poor choices, a lower-than-otherwise standard of living, less economic freedom, greater government dependency, and fewer resources to spend on national security and to secure our borders.

By that definition, then, yes, Armageddon is already here.



Collectivism's Armageddon
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 12:09:08 PM »
Government, for example, again and again extends unemployment compensation oblivious to or unconcerned about its hidden costs.

SIRS this extending and extending and extending unemployment crap is a disgrace....in my business we had to let two people go in the last 60 days.....they both had jobs within ten days....another guy we let go about 2 years ago still claims "he cant find work".  Another guy I know was the manager of a small insurance agency and he got fired 1.5 years ago...and he claims "he still cant find work" either. He sits at home watching Oprah, goes to the horse track, and surfs the web. If I lost my job there is no question I would have a job within 72 hours....I mean not a question...nada...not a 1% chance that I would not have a job within 72 hours....many of these people on unemployment are just lazy....they could find work....but they just dont wanna take the jobs that are available. If the gvt would stop rewarding laziness many of these people would get off their ass!


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2010, 12:35:37 PM »
I know.....I know, Cu4.  This enabling philosophy by the left is cloaked with "good intentions" & "compassion", but facilitates the same behavior, which then begets the need for more "compassionate good intentions", by our Government.  With of course more & more of other people's money & resources, because, as we all know, the left is so more smarter than the rest of us serf.  They obviously know better how to spend our hard earned money.

And the viscious cycle is perpetuated
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2010, 12:47:51 PM »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Plane

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Re: Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2010, 05:15:12 PM »
Last time I looked, the guy was a union head, not a spokesman for a political party.  As long as you gotta earn a living in a capitalist world, there's no point to being a sucker and getting paid less than you're worth.  Had he been the head of a socialist political party, I could understand the feigned outrage.

Is a worker being paid what he is worth a good thing ?

Is a manager being paid what he is worth a good thing?

I would have said yes and yes though I would also need to define a means of determination for "worth".

A worker ought to be paid a large fraction of the value he produces , on a ratio that is hlow when the worker is easy to replace and high when the workers skill is hard to find.

Almost the same for a manager , the worth of a manager can be very high or nothing , when a manager is in a position such that  is no need for management(no less effeciency without him) his value is negative.

Plane

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Re: Are Michael Tee and Karl Marx pissed about this?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2010, 05:18:21 PM »
Capitalism offers the opportunity to accumulate vast capital, which funds an endless number of possibilities from charity to education to direct action.


On behalf of Capitolism , thank you .


Or your welcome , perhaps , if you are indeed accumulating vast capitol and putting it to pleasing use.