Blair Enacts Brass-like Plan for Parental Training

[Amianthus]

The idea that training Americans how to communicate with their children as brainwashing is ludicrous.  I wish someone had offered my own parents classes in child-rearing.  It would have helped me a lot.

That's fine if you want it.

I don't want it mandatory.

Taking a course that's offered voluntarily is different than being forced to take a course. Can you not see the difference?

[Universe Prince]

Well, then just sit in the backseat and try not to f it up for those of us who want to help and think that using the government as a tool to help all of society is a good thing.

Ok?

Um, no. As in, no fu--ing way. You know, the Nazis thought using government as a tool to help all of society was a good thing. The folks who want Christian fundamentalists to take "back" the government and/or who want government ban abortion and pornography and the like, they all think using the government as a tool to help all of society is a good thing. So that you think using government as tool to help all of society is a good thing does not make me want to sit by and do nothing to stop you. It just makes you harder to distinguish politically from those other folks.

[Brassmask]

The idea that training Americans how to communicate with their children as brainwashing is ludicrous.  I wish someone had offered my own parents classes in child-rearing.  It would have helped me a lot.

That's fine if you want it.

I don't want it mandatory.

Taking a course that's offered voluntarily is different than being forced to take a course. Can you not see the difference?

So, then where is your post bitching about the horrors of children being FORCED to learn algebra?  Or that dreadful  GRAMMAR!!!

Forcing people to take a class in how to change a diaper and wash their child without drowning it or how to childproof their house is just common sense.

[BT]

Forcing people to take a class in how to change a diaper and wash their child without drowning it or how to childproof their house is just common sense.

I think they teach that in home ec or whatever it is called now. It might be an elective.

[Brassmask]

It should be compulsory.

If it was, you'd see a marked decrease in teenage pregnancy.

[Amianthus]

So, then where is your post bitching about the horrors of children being FORCED to learn algebra?  Or that dreadful  GRAMMAR!!!

No one is forced to learn algebra. Nor grammar.

[Brassmask]

So, then where is your post bitching about the horrors of children being FORCED to learn algebra?  Or that dreadful  GRAMMAR!!!

No one is forced to learn algebra. Nor grammar.

Uuummmmm, yeah.   

[Amianthus]

Uuummmmm, yeah.   

Well, let's get some evidence.

Please present the names of the states that require you to learn algebra or grammar.

Because my daughter has been in 3 high schools in three different states (Maryland, Minnesota, North Carolina) and while all three had testing requirements for graduating from high school, none of the three states' competency tests tested algebra or grammar skills. All three states just tested for basic math and reading skills (less than 8th grade level).

[Brassmask]

Uuummmmm, yeah.   

Well, let's get some evidence.

Please present the names of the states that require you to learn algebra or grammar.

Because my daughter has been in 3 high schools in three different states (Maryland, Minnesota, North Carolina) and while all three had testing requirements for graduating from high school, none of the three states' competency tests tested algebra or grammar skills. All three states just tested for basic math and reading skills (less than 8th grade level).

Let's just do one.

Graduation Requirements
Core Curriculm | University Path | Technical Path | Gateway Exams

REQUIRED COURSEWORK
There are 20 total credits required for high school graduation. These 20 total credits consist of core curriculum units, specific path (university or technical) requirement units and electives.

Core Curriculum
English 4 units
Math* 3 units
Science ** 3 units
Social Studies 3 units
Health, Physical Fitness, and Wellness 1 unit
Total 14 units

*Mathematics Requirements:

All students must complete one of the following: Algebra I, Integrated Math I, or Technical Algebra (formerly Math for Technology II).

NOTE: Students who enter high school in 2005-06 and later must also complete one of the following: Algebra II, Geometry, Integrated Math II, or Technical Geometry.

**Science Requirements

All students must complete one of the following: Biology, Biology for Technology, or the equivalent in an integrated science curriculum.

All students must complete one course in the physical sciences.

http://www.state.tn.us/education/gradreq.shtml

Sure, you can make a big deal out of the OR but in the end students are FORCED to complete subjects in order to graduate.  That is fact.

[Brassmask]

Here's the state of Oregon's required (forced) subjects.

Required Subject Area Courses
College Preparatory Subjects Minimum units  Grades received must be C- or above in each class.
English 4 years   
Mathematics 3 years Culminating at the Algebra II level or higher
Social Studies 3 years   
Science 2 years One year each of two different sciences (Biology, Chemistry, Physics, etc.)
Foreign Language 2 years May be met in any one of these ways:
Completing two years of the same high school-level foreign language
Earning grade of C- or higher in the third year of high school-level foreign language
Completing two quarters of the same college-level foreign language
Earning a satisfactory score on an approved assessment of foreign language knowledge
Demonstrating proficiency in American Sign Language (ASL)
Completion of grades 1-7 at a school in which all courses are taught in a language other than English. (Documentation is required.) 

[Brassmask]

Indiana

http://www.doe.state.in.us/core40/pdf/Core40DiplReqsComp.pdf

General High School Diploma
English/Language Arts 8 credits 8 credits 8 credits
Mathematics 4 credits 6-8 credits 8 credits
Core 40 Diploma** Academic Honors Diploma***
Credits in literature, composition and speech Credits in literature, composition
2 credits: Algebra I
2 credits: Geometry
2 credits: Algebra II
(or Integrated Math I, II, and III for 6 Credits)
Additional credits in:
Pre-Calculus/Trigonometry, AP Calculus,
Discrete Mathematics, Probability and
Statistics, or AP Statistics
2 credits: Algebra I
2 credits: Geometry
2 credits: Algebra II
(or Integrated Math I, II, and III for
2 credits: Additional credits in
Pre-Calculus/Trigonometry, AP Calculus,
Discrete Mathematics, Probability
Statistics, or AP Statistics
Must include 2 credits in: Algebra I or
Integrated Mathematics I
Indiana High School Diploma Requirements*

I guess this is where semantics starts playing a huge part in your argument.

[Brassmask]

I have it in my head that you are in Minnesota (or Pennsylvania).

Here is MN's high school requirements for graduation.

http://www.education.state.mn.us/mde/static/001068.pdf
Mathematics
3 credits
(encompassing at least algebra,
geometry, and statistics and
probability)

[Brassmask]

Um, no. As in, no fu--ing way. You know, the Nazis thought using government as a tool to help all of society was a good thing. The folks who want Christian fundamentalists to take "back" the government and/or who want government ban abortion and pornography and the like, they all think using the government as a tool to help all of society is a good thing. So that you think using government as tool to help all of society is a good thing does not make me want to sit by and do nothing to stop you. It just makes you harder to distinguish politically from those other folks.

The British, the Netherlands, the Swiss, the Costa Ricans, the Canadians and so forth also use government as a tool to help all of society.  Seems to be working pretty good for them for the most part.  Don't remember them killing a bunch of Jews or forcing religion on anyone.  Canadians like their strips clubs and social medicine.

I call shotgun!  Sit in the back, UP.

[Amianthus]

I have it in my head that you are in Minnesota (or Pennsylvania).

Here is MN's high school requirements for graduation.

http://www.education.state.mn.us/mde/static/001068.pdf
Mathematics
3 credits
(encompassing at least algebra,
geometry, and statistics and
probability)

Was, now I'm in North Carolina.

Like I said, they're not required to LEARN it. Just take the courses. The requirements for what they need to LEARN is encompassed by the competency tests that the various states use to qualify people for graduation - which does not include algebra in any state I've lived in.

If people would actually learn math in high school, they wouldn't say stupid things like "it's obvious that half the population has below average intelligence."

And I wouldn't have problems explaining maxima and minima to (college educated) coworkers.

Now, getting back to semantics - had you said "forced to STUDY algebra" rather than "forced to LEARN algebra" you might have had a point.

But then you probably learned "grammar" in public school, right?

[Brassmask]

Now, getting back to semantics - had you said "forced to STUDY algebra" rather than "forced to LEARN algebra" you might have had a point.

I'm glad you can admit it.