Author Topic: Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism  (Read 9372 times)

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Michael Tee

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Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism
« on: April 14, 2010, 12:10:35 PM »
http://www.progressive.org/wx041210.html

He draws parallels between the Obama administration and the Weimar Republic.  The collusion between the Obama administration and the financial services industry, the obscene rewards of the wealthiest while unemployment hovers around 10% and real wages for the employed stagnate for about 30 years.  The extreme rapidity in the growth of both the Nazi Party and the Tea Parties, both fueled by escalating disgust over the situation where a handful get rich at the expense of the masses.

Good article, and short too.

sirs

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Re: Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2010, 12:18:01 PM »
Good lord, what have I been saying, all this time??  Minus the nonsense and transparent deflection by injecting the Tea party folk, since their biggest concern is precisely the fascist policies being implimented by Obama & company, topped only by the egregious fiscal wrecklessness being perserverated by the left, that's precisely the issue I've been referencing for the last 6+months.  Nice that such an "educated" bloke like Chomsky has finally caught on to this this lowly little serf's assessement.  One can only wonder why & how it took so long

(And for those with the myopic template persona, non-support of additional taxation and ever expanding government is largely the polar opposite in support of fascism & increasing Government control of the Private sector)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 01:36:06 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

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Re: Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2010, 06:29:33 PM »
So Chomsky has bought the nonsense that the Tea Party movement is fascist. When people who know better jump to such stupid conclusions, there is nothing to explain it but irrational fear.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

sirs

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Re: Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2010, 07:19:07 PM »
Give that man a cigar     8)     

But don't expect a response, irrational or otherwise.  We apparently called Tee on 1 too many of his less-then-truthful romps.  His apparent unstable psyche was apparently irreversibly traumatized to allow further responding.  We'll have to wait for someone who hasn't called Tee to the floor on some of his whoppers, to make a posting, so that he can then follow-up with that all too familiar salivating wit
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2010, 07:39:17 PM »
Quote
No analogy is perfect, he said,.......



Hahahahahahahahahahahhaa!


The simularity starts with cheering crouds and continues to inflationary policys.

Facism is prone to break out at every good football game or used car lot?

sirs

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Re: Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2010, 07:42:45 PM »
There we go, Tee can now believe himself to be unconstrained in his responding to Plane      ;)


(I'm sure the rest of the saloon patrons, and the many more vistors we have, are getting a kick out of this faux tee outrage)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Religious Dick

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Re: Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2010, 06:22:16 AM »
Actually, I don't really disagree with any of this. But I do question this statement:

Quote
Chomsky invoked Germany during the Weimar Republic, and drew a parallel between it and the United States. ?The Weimar Republic was the peak of Western civilization and was regarded as a model of democracy,? he said.

If Weimar type societies are the acme of civilization, why do people resort to such radical philosophies as fascism as a corrective? Apparently not everybody finds such societies as compelling as Chomsky does.

Let's also keep in mind that Nazi Germany was an industrial and economic powerhouse, rivaling or even surpassing the United States. Which certainly beats having the kind of economy where you needed a barrel of Deutschmarks to buy a loaf of bread. I think the question of which one was the peak of Western civilization is very much an arguable point...
I speak of civil, social man under law, and no other.
-Sir Edmund Burke

Michael Tee

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Re: Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2010, 07:37:36 AM »
<<Let's also keep in mind that Nazi Germany was an industrial and economic powerhouse, rivaling or even surpassing the United States. Which certainly beats having the kind of economy where you needed a barrel of Deutschmarks to buy a loaf of bread. I think the question of which one was the peak of Western civilization is very much an arguable point...>>

The real issue was how stable the Nazi German economy really was.  While Hitler's economic advisers like Hjalmar Schacht were pressing him to ease off on military production and war-production loans, Hitler was driven to start the war sooner rather than later, since he realized that he would not be able to keep his labour force quiet forever as spending on war drove up the cost of money while wages were being held down under the lenders' pressures.  Professor Overy has a good analysis of the German economic situation in the late Thirties in his book on the Origins of WWII, and what I gathered from that was that without a war, it would have collapsed.

_JS

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Re: Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2010, 09:19:44 AM »
The comparison is made because the same classes were involved in constructing both the tea parties and fascist states: the petty bourgeoisie and the lumpenproletariat. In both cases Christianity was also highly involved (despite the bullshit one sees on the History Channel).

This has nothing to do with the government controlling X% of the private sector. It has to do with just how angry the petty bourgeoisie has become.

By and by, capitalism did rather well with Fascism. Any capitalist worth his salt chose fascism over complete disorder and especially over communism. You may want to look and see who has patents on sarin gas, the work done by Ferdinand Porsche, Siemens, Merck, Fiat, and other major companies during the reign of Fascism. There's a reason communists and socialists were the first to be shown the concentration camps.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
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   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
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   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2010, 12:04:22 PM »
Your problem Js, is that your using the approach Tee and like minds used in trying to compare Bush to Hitler.  Yea, they were both men, ergo, Bush = Hitler (a moronic form, of course).  Yea, perhaps you have anger behind the tea party movement and whatever it was that was behind the rise of the Nazi party.  How the hell one can then make the leap of illogic and try to equate the Tea Party folk with fascists, and by inferrence, racists, produces a level of such complete uncredibility, as to have the reader scratching his head.  Fascists would be supportive of fascist policy.  They'd be supportive of a want-to-be Fascist Government.  I dare you to find ANYONE of credibility within either the Tea Party Movement, the GOP or high ranking Conservative pundit, advocating such.  Because without it, you're just throwing the term out, just to throw it out, because it has such negative connotations connected to it.  Much like just calling someone a racist or homophobe, based on nothing more than not being supportive of what you think should be.  Can't possibly because they actually have serious disagreement in your thought process

It's one thing when Tee does it.  You, on the other hand, should have a better grasp of reality.  Or so you say, by claiming you're not a liberal.  Then stop acting like one, and act like a free thinker, that I know you can be
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

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Re: Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 05:19:41 PM »

The comparison is made because the same classes were involved in constructing both the tea parties and fascist states: the petty bourgeoisie and the lumpenproletariat.


Who are the lumpenproletariat in this country?

Frankly, I don't think that is why the comparison is made at all. I believe if the Tea Party movement was espousing a liberal and/or socialist ideology, none of the liberal talking heads, including Chomsky, would be trying to warn us about impending fascism. So I question the issue of class being the defining factor.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

_JS

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Re: Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2010, 08:55:02 PM »
Your problem Js, is that your using the approach Tee and like minds used in trying to compare Bush to Hitler. It's one thing when Tee does it.  You, on the other hand, should have a better grasp of reality.  Or so you say, by claiming you're not a liberal.  Then stop acting like one, and act like a free thinker, that I know you can be

Gads, where did I claim that Bush = Hitler? That has absolutely nothing to do with my point whatsoever.

Moreover, I am not a "liberal" because I am a Marxist.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2010, 08:58:30 PM »
Your problem Js, is that your using the approach Tee and like minds used in trying to compare Bush to Hitler. It's one thing when Tee does it.  You, on the other hand, should have a better grasp of reality.  Or so you say, by claiming you're not a liberal.  Then stop acting like one, and act like a free thinker, that I know you can be

Gads, where did I claim that Bush = Hitler?

I never said you did.  Your point of trying to lay hate as the foundation for tea party movement and fascism, and thus connecting the 2, is much like folks who used the warpest of mechanisms to equate Bush to Hitler.


That has absolutely nothing to do with my point whatsoever.

Good thing I never said you did then   *whew*   

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2010, 09:08:49 PM »

The comparison is made because the same classes were involved in constructing both the tea parties and fascist states: the petty bourgeoisie and the lumpenproletariat.


Who are the lumpenproletariat in this country?

Frankly, I don't think that is why the comparison is made at all. I believe if the Tea Party movement was espousing a liberal and/or socialist ideology, none of the liberal talking heads, including Chomsky, would be trying to warn us about impending fascism. So I question the issue of class being the defining factor.



The lumpenproletariat are the "flotsam of society." Every country has such a class. Is Chomsky biased? Of course. Does the tea party have pseudo-fascist motivations? Of course. They are an angry petty-bourgeoisie. They have some feelings of independence from their masters, it is only natural.

Look, chances are the tea party anger will deflate over time. On the other hand, and I believe what Chomsky is saying, is what if someone comes along who can really harness a message that can tie Christianity, Nationalism, anger, and a sense of class for these petty bourgeoisie folks together? Therein lies your fascism. The chances of such a demagogue appearing are not great. Sarah Palin is an imbecile (sorry if that's tough for some, but she is). Who knows though, maybe a Franco, Mussolini, or even Hitler is out there. I think that is what Chomsky is saying. It would take a great deal of historical variables meeting at one point - but the feasibility is there, even if improbable.    
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

_JS

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Re: Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2010, 09:09:49 PM »
Your problem Js, is that your using the approach Tee and like minds used in trying to compare Bush to Hitler. It's one thing when Tee does it.  You, on the other hand, should have a better grasp of reality.  Or so you say, by claiming you're not a liberal.  Then stop acting like one, and act like a free thinker, that I know you can be

Gads, where did I claim that Bush = Hitler?

I never said you did.  Your point of trying to lay hate as the foundation for tea party movement and fascism, and thus connecting the 2, is much like folks who used the warpest of mechanisms to equate Bush to Hitler.


That has absolutely nothing to do with my point whatsoever.

Good thing I never said you did then   *whew*   



Where did I use the term "hate?"
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.