Chomsky Warns of Danger of Fascism

[_JS]

No need, my Aunt lives in one in Berlin and I have a good friend who lives in one near London.

Of course there is nothing wrong with a Marxist having a normal job, house, wife, and children. As I've explained, you won't bother to understand historical materialism, so you cry foul when any Marxist or communist is actually successful in your capitalist society.

Knowing how capitalism works is part of being a good Marxist. It doesn't mean one has to like the machinations of your beloved bourgeoisie society or that there are not actions one can take to help the proletariat achieve class consciousness.

Mike, nor I really have to give a shit less what petty bourgeoisie sluggards have to say about lifestyle. Marxism is not a lifestyle. It is an historical movement towards the liberation of the worker and ultimate liberation of humanity from the class struggle. Mike may see the progression towards this goal differently than I, but I'm certain that we have the same ends in mind. To be honest, what the petty bourgeoisie, the bourgeoisie proper, the elite, or the lumpenproletariat think of me, personally, is so far into the weeds of minutiae as to be irrelevant when compared to the massive weight of history.

If it takes being called a "hypocrite" or far worse, being jailed, being killed, tortured, or just dying of old age and knowing that I've done something to move a few workers a bit further towards that end of liberation - then I can die happy with a simple sign saying, "here lies a comrade."

[Amianthus]

And this whole conversation reminded me that because of my health complications over the last couple of months, I had not renewed by membership at the health food coop nor reserved my place at the CSA farm, and both deadlines were looming.

So, those are taken care of now...

[BT]

Good luck with your efforts to change the world.

If i notice any liberated proletariat around here, i'll ask them to send you my regards.

[Michael Tee]

<<If i notice any liberated proletariat around here, i'll ask them to send you my regards. >>

You're just not looking hard enough.
http://www.workers.org/2010/us/sodexo_0422/

[BT]

Changing exploiters does not liberate you.

[Amianthus]

A graduate student wrote this?

Ughh.

"although they have some of the most contact with students"

Bunch of other problems in there.

[Michael Tee]

<<Changing exploiters does not liberate you. >>

Neither does meekly submitting to guys who get rich by fucking you in the ass.

Although you don't seem to have any problem with the U.S. charging off to fight the Vietnamese, the Iraqis, the Afghans, the Iranians or anyone else who may have pissed off the imperial advisors, you are a rock of passivity  and inertia when it comes to any effort at all, violent or non-violent, to fight the class enemy right here at home where some tangible benefit can reward the effort.

[BT]

Although you don't seem to have any problem with the U.S. charging off to fight the Vietnamese, the Iraqis, the Afghans, the Iranians or anyone else who may have pissed off the imperial advisors, you are a rock of passivity  and inertia when it comes to any effort at all, violent or non-violent, to fight the class enemy right here at home where some tangible benefit can reward the effort.

I don't consider Emory a class enemy. They have an excellent record as a citizen of the Southeast.

And the food service company at the heart of the complaint?

Rankings and awards.

    * Named One of World's Top 50 Green Outsourcing Suppliers
    * Ranked number three in the world among outsourcing services companies
    * Top 50 Companies for Diversity (#6) - DiversityInc
    * Named One of the 2009 DiversityInc Top Ten Employers for LGBT Workers
    * Ranks Second on the 2009 DiversityInc Top Ten Companies for Latinos
    * Named a "Best Company" for Multicultural Women by Working Mother Magazine
    * Named as One of "World's Most Ethical Companies"

Not too shabby.

Sounds like the union is trying to insert itself as the middleman.

and weren't you complaining about middlemen in the housing industry?

[Universe Prince]

Not collectivist, corporatist and there is a difference. Moreover, the benefit of the state trumped everything. Therefore any dangers to the state were considered everyone's immediate concern, which is why preventive wars and Gestapo invasion of anyone's privacy were completely permissible. The Nation was sacred.

Yes, and the propaganda at least (kinda like people do here too frequently) conflated the people the with the nation/state. It was collectivist through and through.

[Michael Tee]

<<I don't consider Emory a class enemy. They have an excellent record as a citizen of the Southeast.>>

Really?  So why is this "excellent" citizen doing business with a union-busting company?  Do you think they are hoping to (a) raise or (b) lower the wages and benefits paid to the workers who feed their students?  Do you think that if Sodexo (the union-busting company) succeeds in maintaining its presence at Emory and in busting the union, that the bargaining position of other food-service workers who are citizens of the same "Southeast" that Emory is such an "excellent citizen" of, will be (a) strengthened or (b) eroded?

<<And the food service company at the heart of the complaint?

<<Rankings and awards. . . . >>

I am ROTFLMFAO at this.  Who is it that passes out these indicia of "excellence?"  The workers who make it all possible, who receive and store and process and serve and clean away the food?  You should live so long.  The awards are made by the same parasitic exploiters living off the sweat of the workers whose balls they are trying to bust - - there isn't ONE labour union ranking or awarding them anything except Scab of the Year medals.  Just for the hell of it, I took a peek at the DiversityInc. website at http://www.diversityinc.com/article/7347/The-2010-DiversityInc-Top-50-List/ and it was hilarious - - down the left margin in a sidebar, are listed the site's sponsors, and if anyone needs a snap definition of "class enemy" in the future, I'm just gonna give 'em the URL and tell them to read the sponsor list.  Included proudly among the site sponsors is Sodexo, the union-busting corporation fighting now for the Emory campus and - - miracle of miracles - - occupying top rank on the site for "diversity" is  - - wait for it!! - - the very same Sodexo.  Now is that some fucking coincidence or what?

So Sodexo busts unions but has a soft spot for Latinos and other visible minorities?  Is there anyone in the room over the age of 12 who doesn't know what that means?  Sodexo will fuck ANY worker in the ass, Latinos included.  BFD.  Sure they like new immigrants - - the newer the better.  The less they know their way around, the longer Sodexo gets to fuck 'em before they wise up.

 <<Not too shabby.>>

Are you shitting us?  Every one of those self-awarded titles is a total crock.  Smoke and mirrors from a clique of class enemies each awarding the other some fictitious title, something like the adult entertainment industry:  Miss Nude Oahu 2006, Miss Hot Legs Las Vegas 2009.  Or the Latin American military, "You're an Admiral if I'm a Generalissimo and he's a Field Marshall."  You sure are a sucker for titles, BT.  Sometimes you should look into who's handing them all out.

<<Sounds like the union is trying to insert itself as the middleman.>>

Well, I guess it would - - if the union weren't synonymous with the very workers who create the product that the corporation is selling.

<<and weren't you complaining about middlemen in the housing industry?>>

Yeah, but I meant the bankers and the lenders and the realtors and their lawyers and the accountants and advertising agencies, I was not referring to the excavators and the masons and the carpenters and the electricians and plumbers and HVAC guys and drywallers and painters and roofers.  They aren't exactly "middlemen" are they?

[BT]

The unions are middlemen in the sense that they take a cut from the members pay in order to finance whatever value added services they provide.

How is that different from an accountant, lawyer or banker?

[Plane]

The books I referred to were penned by JRR Tolkein, The Lord of the Rings. Can anyone figure out who represented the fascists, who represented the capitalists, and who represented the communists?

Others may have read that into his books, but that's not by author's intent. Tolkien has denied many times that he used allegory in his books; as a matter of fact, he despised allegory as a tool.

Of course, people have read similar intent (again, not intended by the author) into CS Lewis' books, which would have also therefore been a correct answer to your initial question.

Then they should have been reading Orwell.

[Plane]

<<I think that Tee is separating the bourgeoisie from the proletariat, but I could possibly be wrong.>>

I was actually responding to BT's response to a capsule description of fascism, the capsule description being:

<<The idea is that the workers are organized into state-affiliated syndicates, called corporations, and the government, the capitalists, and the workers are joined together in a common national purpose>>,

to which BT had responded:  <<And this is a bad system because . . . ?>>

So what is the feature of Facism that makes it deplorable and has earned it the opprobrium of generations?

Things that are simular to Fascism in its "good"* features need not share blame with it for features not shared , right?






* Another interesting question might be " Did Fascism have good features?".

[Plane]

I rather like the idea of communes. Though I'm not sure why living in a commune and violent direct action would be mutually exclusive.

Because a commune makes you easy to find.

There are a few successfull communes around , is it important for them to get along well with their neighbors?

[Plane]

Collectivising isn't illeagal in the USA , farms are being collected and staffed with hired farmers all over the place.

Agribusiness thay call it.


I wish it were not so , it competes with family farms in an unfair way , especially since corporations never have to pay a death tax , as farm familys do once per generation.