From the "Drill, Baby, Drill" Morons, a Deafening Silence

[Michael Tee]

I also heard and saw her say "Drill Baby Drill."  Obviously the Hufpo vid has been edited or there was another occasion.   The fact is, I thought that was HER slogan, so it might be that she spoke it on some occasion when Biden wasn't also present.

[Amianthus]

"I remember it, and I can't be wrong, so obviously a video of the event that shows I'm wrong has been professionally edited."

[Michael Tee]

<<"I remember it, and I can't be wrong, so obviously a video of the event that shows I'm wrong has been professionally edited.">>

Professionally or otherwise edited, yes of course, that is one possibility and the other is that you are referencing a video of one event and at another event (the video of which is not seen now) she said what I recall seeing her say.

Even someone as obviously logic-challenged as yourself should have been able to figure that one out.

[Amianthus]

Even someone as obviously logic-challenged as yourself should have been able to figure that one out.

XO claimed that it was the GOP Convention speech. He even brought up an article claiming it was the GOP Convention speech.

The only "logic challenged" around here are those who make a claim, then when it's proven to be wrong, claim that they're right anyway and the evidence was tampered with. Or that they're right even though the evidence disagrees with them.

[sirs]

Must fit template

[Michael Tee]

<<XO claimed that it was the GOP Convention speech. He even brought up an article claiming it was the GOP Convention speech.>>

Doesn't matter one God-damned bit where XO saw or thought he saw the speech.  He saw it somewhere and I saw it somewhere.

If the tape of the event did not show what XO remembered, it is possible the tape you saw was altered.  If unaltered the tape YOU saw could have been of another event accidentally or otherwise misattributed to the convention.  Another possibility is that XO saw Palin say the words - - as did I - - but was wrong in describing the venue.  ANY of those explanations are simple and they are adequate explanations for both XO and myself being correct in remembering Palin as uttering those words.

<<The only "logic challenged" around here are those who make a claim, then when it's proven to be wrong, claim that they're right anyway and the evidence was tampered with.>>

You're making another logical error in assuming that XO is "proven to be wrong" simply because of a tape that you produce that doesn't show what he recalls.  You have at most some evidence that XO may be wrong, but certainly no conclusive proof of that.  My recollection is evidence that XO may be right, but is not conclusive proof of that either.

<< Or that they're right even though the evidence disagrees with them.>>

That's also a logical possibility.  First of all, not all the evidence disagrees with XO.  His recollection and mine are evidence that he is correct.  Your failure to find a videotape of what both of us remember is, frankly, almost worthless as evidence.  We don't know if the videotape exists or not and we don't know how long or how hard you searched, or whether or not you searched in all the right places.  We could both be right and you could be an ineffective searcher.  We could both be right, you could be the best fucking searcher in the world, and there might not be any videotape of the event, either due to alteration, loss or accident.

Your thinking is highly confused and illogical.  I shouldn't have to be giving out lessons in elementary logic to somebody who throws around concepts like "evidence" and "proof" and obviously has little to no idea at all WTF he is talking about.  That was all pretty basic stuff.

[sirs]

LOL...highly confused and illogical is basically taking yours and Xo's word for it (the claim), and having no back-up, what-so-ever.  Worse, expecting Ami to find it for you, and because he doesn't, there's supposed more "credibility" to your claim

As laughable as it is illogical     

[Plane]

I wonder if they saw Tina Fey say that?


The diffrence between the real and the parody might have been too much of a nuance to impress on the memory.

[Amianthus]

That's also a logical possibility.  First of all, not all the evidence disagrees with XO.  His recollection and mine are evidence that he is correct.  Your failure to find a videotape of what both of us remember is, frankly, almost worthless as evidence.

But your failure to produce evidence that you are correct is worth boat loads.

Feel free to produce the video of Palin chanting "Drill, Baby, Drill" at the GOP Convention. Prove to everyone that you're right.

[Michael Tee]

<<Feel free to produce the video of Palin chanting "Drill, Baby, Drill" at the GOP Convention. Prove to everyone that you're right.>>

I don't have to prove it was said during the GOP Convention, and IMHO neither does XO, because where she said it is an absolutely irrelevant detail. 

I will concede that it's barely possible, as plane suggested, that I saw Tina Fey saying the words and that this transformed in my memory over time to a memory of Palin saying it.  Fey did a remarkable imitation of Sarah Palin.

At this point, however, I have a clear and distinct memory of Sarah Palin saying those words.  So does XO, which reinforces my opinion that she spoke the words.  Whether or not XO is right as to time and place is immaterial, IMHO, since that's an irrelevant detail.

Your inability to find any video of the event is some small evidence of its never having occurred, but not very convincing evidence.  Even assuming that your on-line research skills are better than average and that you gave it a decent effort (something I have no knowledge of either way) your failure to find the tape verifying what both XO and I recall can be explained in several plausible ways, either the source tape being altered and no original copies being available, or a copy being altered and the source and copies of the source then becoming unavailable, or the tape existing and you being unable to locate it, or no tape of the event ever having been preserved and made available on-line or even (God forbid!) both plane and I being mistaken.

What I find laughable in your reasoning is that you proceed from premise to conclusion as if your one piece of evidence (that YOU have not found the tape) permitted only one conclusion.  That's pathetic, frankly.  You really should know better.

[Amianthus]

I don't have to prove it was said during the GOP Convention, and IMHO neither does XO, because where she said it is an absolutely irrelevant detail. 

It was what she hollered at the GOP Convention, and at a number of other venues. Google it and you will find it.

However, she DID say it, and in that speech, hence the use of the slogan in the title of the article
. I heard her say it. She repeated it at least two other times, both on the PBS news.

XO is the one who insisted on the venue. BT's claim was that it was never her rallying cry and that if she used it, it was well after others had already used it.

[Christians4LessGvt]

<<XO claimed that it was the GOP Convention speech. He even brought up an article claiming it was the GOP Convention speech>>
Doesn't matter one God-damned bit where XO saw or thought he saw the speech.  He saw it somewhere and I saw it somewhere.
If the tape of the event did not show what XO remembered, it is possible the tape you saw was altered. 
If unaltered the tape YOU saw could have been of another event accidentally or otherwise misattributed to the convention. 

Come on Michael....you lose credibility with non-sense like this.
Clearly XO made a claim that AMI shows was not in fact true.
If we are to have at least the most basic level of honest debate in this forum this strikes me as really pushing the limit.
XO was wrong in his claim, it's not the end of the world.
But you arguing the point by claiming or implying the tape AMI provided was altered seems foolish and desperate.

[Michael Tee]

Sorry, but I'm going with XO on this one.  His recollection is clear and distinct and your inability to find the tape (or at least an indisputably unaltered copy of it) could mean any number of things.  

Since BT's objection is only as to time and place, I have no quarrel with him and in fact he never says that he saw the same event that XO watched and that his recollection of it differs from XO's.  Whether or not it was ever her "rallying cry" is a highly subjective call to make.  Her every public appearance in the course of the campaign was aimed at garnering support, and if she said it, she said it with that aim in mind, so I'd characterize it as a "rallying cry," and in any event the issue is, did she say it or not.

[Michael Tee]

<<Come on Michael....you lose credibility with non-sense like this.
<<Clearly XO made a claim that AMI shows was not in fact true.>>

Sorry, CU4, but the MOST that Ami could have shown was that XO was mistaken in time and place, not that she never said the words in the campaign.  I don't consider the time and place of the words to be a significant element in this discussion, where the real issue (IMHO) was whether or not Palin ever said "Drill, Baby, Drill!"  XO claims she said it, I remember hearing her say it (although it's barely possible that it was Tina Fey) and I'm just not concerned whether XO got every single detail right as to where and when he heard her say it.

<<If we are to have at least the most basic level of honest debate in this forum this strikes me as really pushing the limit.
<<XO was wrong in his claim, it's not the end of the world.
<<But you arguing the point by claiming or implying the tape AMI provided was altered seems foolish and desperate.>>

But I didn't make that the cornerstone of the argument.  Tapes are altered for various reasons, some are edited for shortness or other reasons, some just lose data in storage or during transmission and there is really no reason to assume that what Ami saw was in fact an unaltered and unedited record of the entire event.  However, as I explained, even if the tape were a complete record of the event (which I did not categorically deny) it would not have disproved the essential part of XO's recollection, only one relatively insignificant detail of it.

[Michael Tee]

Further to my last post on this, which was essentially just a reply defending myself to CU4, Media Matters has a whole history of DRILL BABY DRILL  which includes Palin saying this, at:

http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-opinion-section/71-71/1635-qdrill-baby-drillq-fox-news-environmental-catastrophe

This includes all the Faux Snooze talking heads - - all the clowns in the fucking circus - - chiming in, with the booby prize IMHO going to Glenn Beck ("The oil companies are doing a better job than the government at protecting the fish and wildlife in the ocean.")  Hannity, Palin, Beck, Newt - - they all jumped on the bandwagon.  The resultant catastrophe looks to be the biggest environmental disaster  about to hit the U.S.A. coastal waters and beaches ever, but we shall see.  Hopefully the damage can be averted for now.  If it is, we can expect to see all the fucking morons back on the bandwagon calling for MORE offshore drilling, as if the current fuckup had never even occurred.