Looks Like I have to do Your Job For you -- for inquiring small minds

[Plane]

Simplistic yes , I mean to deal with one factor at a time when possible.


Within the country we encourage workers to move , answering the call of economic advantage even to the point of behaveing like nomads .

What is the thing that maks us irritated by border crossing workers?

The simplest answer we can find would probly suggest the proper choice of action for dealing with the problem.

[Universe Prince]

Within the country we encourage workers to move , answering the call of economic advantage even to the point of behaveing like nomads .

What is the thing that maks us irritated by border crossing workers?

The simplest answer we can find would probly suggest the proper choice of action for dealing with the problem.

I can't answer that. Well, I think I can, actually, but an honest reply is probably going to result in someone shouting 'illegal' and 'illegal immigration' at me in all caps, with strong admonitions about people being 'pro-immigration' and how unreasonable I am. And possibly me being called hysterical even.

But I never let that stop me before.

Some people are irritated by people crossing the national border because they racist. Not all, but some. Some people are irritated because they seem to think the immigrants are going to ruin the country. Which seems to me would have happened long before now, because that has been a cry against immigration for, well, forever. Some people seem to think there is an issue of national security. In light of how many terrorists seem to get into the country legally already, I don't find that a compelling argument. Some people want to try to make this into some sort of private property issue, which, even if it was, does nothing to mean we need strict control of the border limiting entry to a relative few. No matter how much some people try to make the analogy work, the country is not a house. Some folks are jus' plain ol' opposed to anything that seems to appease someone with a different political persuasion. The overall point being, Plane, there is not one simple answer.

[Plane]

Simpler....

Are Mexicans who can spend money haveing any problem crossing our border?

[Universe Prince]

Simpler....

Are Mexicans who can spend money haveing any problem crossing our border?

Simpler or different? That seems like an entirely different question than the one you asked before.

[Plane]

Simpler....

Are Mexicans who can spend money haveing any problem crossing our border?

Simpler or different? That seems like an entirely different question than the one you asked before.

Not really I hope to point out that all of the problems you mentioned may be real , but that they are trumped by economic considerations.

Which of these problems do we have with Canada?

Canada has been shareing our economy for generations , they are as wealthy as we are and we scarcely defend our border against Canadians at all.

Canadians who cross the border to work are unremarkable and can land almost any job an American can, after all they almost speak the same language.

Economics and language , I think we could modify the circumstances of economics and language and gradually decrease the pressure that makes the Mexican border so contentious.

We have had at times as much as 15% of Mexicos workforce on our soil , earning cash and learning english.

Why are we not useing this as an oppurtunity to spread our message?

WE should not only make it easy to cross the border for the purpose of honest work , we should make education availible to the Mexicans and other Latinos we therby find availible to our indoctrination.

Byt he time that they return to the land that they love , where they have their familys , they would not only have a pocket full of cash , but they would have a working knoledge of English and an understanding of American style good government.

WE could gradually do to Mexico what we have done to Canada and improve them into good neighbors who absolutely share our economy and remain seaprate for the sake of nationalism alone.

[Universe Prince]

Not really I hope to point out that all of the problems you mentioned may be real , but that they are trumped by economic considerations.

I'm not sure racist and xenophobic objections are overcome by economic considerations.

Which of these problems do we have with Canada?

Canada has been shareing our economy for generations , they are as wealthy as we are and we scarcely defend our border against Canadians at all.

They are also mostly like us in culture and most speak English with little accent to our ears.

WE should not only make it easy to cross the border for the purpose of honest work , we should make education availible to the Mexicans and other Latinos we therby find availible to our indoctrination.

Byt he time that they return to the land that they love , where they have their familys , they would not only have a pocket full of cash , but they would have a working knoledge of English and an understanding of American style good government.

Sounds like a good plan. When you can convince people like Sirs to support it, let me know. I've argued for similar ideas, and I get told they are irrational and impractical and a host of other "but we can't do that" objections.

[Plane]

Not really I hope to point out that all of the problems you mentioned may be real , but that they are trumped by economic considerations.

I'm not sure racist and xenophobic objections are overcome by economic considerations.

You may go ahead and be certain , it does.

Which of these problems do we have with Canada?

Canada has been shareing our economy for generations , they are as wealthy as we are and we scarcely defend our border against Canadians at all.

They are also mostly like us in culture and most speak English with little accent to our ears.

I'm not sure that economic objections are overcome by racist and xenophobic considerations. If Canadians were pouring across the border to find factory and management jobs in our major citys ,,... oh wait they are, have been doing that so long we forget they have a diffrence.

WE should not only make it easy to cross the border for the purpose of honest work , we should make education availible to the Mexicans and other Latinos we therby find availible to our indoctrination.

Byt he time that they return to the land that they love , where they have their familys , they would not only have a pocket full of cash , but they would have a working knoledge of English and an understanding of American style good government.

Sounds like a good plan. When you can convince people like Sirs to support it, let me know. I've argued for similar ideas, and I get told they are irrational and impractical and a host of other "but we can't do that" objections.

So you agree that the basic solution is to teach Mexicans to become Canadian? You are some sorta racist , xenophobic culture killer? Odbviously the real solution can't be to crush the Mexican peoples spirit and make them forget their culture.  Bad enough we have done that to the Canadians.

[Universe Prince]

So you agree that the basic solution is to teach Mexicans to become Canadian? You are some sorta racist , xenophobic culture killer? Odbviously the real solution can't be to crush the Mexican peoples spirit and make them forget their culture.  Bad enough we have done that to the Canadians.

So... you've just come to mock me? Oh. Okay. I thought you were trying to discuss the issue. My mistake.

I guess I missed the memo about how all debate here was to occur in the form of making up nonsense and then accusing other people of believing the nonsense. But I am sure I can catch on to how it's done. I have so many able teachers, apparently.

[Plane]

So you agree that the basic solution is to teach Mexicans to become Canadian? You are some sorta racist , xenophobic culture killer? Odbviously the real solution can't be to crush the Mexican peoples spirit and make them forget their culture.  Bad enough we have done that to the Canadians.

So... you've just come to mock me? Oh. Okay. I thought you were trying to discuss the issue. My mistake.

I guess I missed the memo about how all debate here was to occur in the form of making up nonsense and then accusing other people of believing the nonsense. But I am sure I can catch on to how it's done. I have so many able teachers, apparently.

I am haveing fun.

But I hope I had a straight face , for most of that.

I have a lot of sympathy for your stance on Immagration, Your ideas would represent a real improvement over what we presently have no question. Even if I disagree somewhat with you this is clear , a coherent plan with consistancy would help.

Our present immagration policys are caotic and this isn't accidental , that the laws are a hodgepodge of unfairness and strifecauseing irritations innefective at stemming the flow nor effective at releiveing the misery of the immagrant.

The lawmakeing and lawenforceing bodys involved are very much like our site here , bickering and struggleing over minor issues and wasting a lot of time recycleing the same steam.

In our microcosim we see an analoguous process to the cross purposes that our legislatures , marshals , govenors and Presidents floumoux each other with.

I don't think that we are going to solve our misunderstanding , which matters little , except that it helps me understand why our leadership is not going anywhere with it either.

[Universe Prince]

If they go anywhere with it, they should go backwards. Back to something closer to the immigration policy of the late 19th century.

[Universe Prince]

http://c4ss.org/content/2337

The passage of a Jim Crow/police state law in the US state of Arizona last week, based on alleged threats to that state’s civil order and economic health, is a fitting hook on which to hang a brief history of travel over the “national borders” claimed by the United States. To hear the Know-Nothings complain, you’d think that the US has a history of strict border control and that the federal government has only recently begun to lie down on the job. Nothing could be further from the truth. For close to a century, the federal government exerted precisely zero control over immigration. People decided where they wanted to be and then they went there, with no need to request permission. [...] The framers of the US Constitution didn’t even bother to enumerate a federal power to control immigration, choosing only to provide for regulation of naturalization of immigrants — i.e. how they might go about becoming citizens. While some assert an implied original intent to allow for immigration regulations, there’s no such intent alluded to in The Federalist Papers, while a complaint about the lack of such an intent is found in the anti-federalist literature of the time. [...] It wasn’t until 1882 that the first restriction on immigration (the Chinese Exclusion Act) became law. It wasn’t until 1891 that a federal Bureau of Immigration was created, its main job being to collect a “head tax” of 50 cents from each person passing through Ellis Island. [...] The history of US immigration regulation is part and parcel of the history of expansion of government power in America. In its form of the last 60 years, it represents the tail end of New Deal social engineering and the front end of “the instrumentality of a totalitarian bureaucracy within our shores” which “conservative” activist William F. Buckley, Jr. called for pursuant to the Cold War.

[Universe Prince]

If anyone wanted to get serious about slowing the "flood" of immigration and crimes commonly (but usually incorrectly) associated with immigration, he would stop trying to promote strict enforcement of a top-down law enforcement control system that has not worked for immigration control, drug control, alcohol control, pornography control, or pretty much anything at all. Instead, he would promote ending the "war on drugs", ending U.S. agriculture subsidies, legalizing most drugs they way alcohol and tobacco are legal, and opening up trade with other countries. That is what is needed to address the actual underlying issues. Immigration is an issue that will never be solved so long as everyone is focused on cracking down on it rather than the actual problems. Massive immigration is the symptom, not the disease.

[sirs]

Your opinion on disease, symptoms, and the level of severity to each is duely noted & appreciated

[Universe Prince]

You know, Sirs, you don't have to respond to everything I say.

[sirs]

You know Prince, I don't