Author Topic: Immigration and our Founders  (Read 7479 times)

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sirs

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Immigration and our Founders
« on: May 25, 2010, 01:50:52 PM »
With his thick Austrian accent, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger quipped in his commencement address at Emory University this past week: "I was also going to give a graduation speech in Arizona this weekend. But with my accent, I was afraid they would try to deport me."

It seems that the whole country is taking sides in the battle over the border in Arizona. Yet it truly remains the tip of the iceberg of our immigration troubles. Spurred on by the national debate, at least 10 other states are seeking to enact tougher immigration laws.

Now more than ever, we must protect our borders and sovereignty, by providing genuine solutions to the dangers of American boundary fluidity. With estimates showing that by 2060 America will add 167 million people (37 million immigrants today will multiply into 105 million then), it is imperative for us to do more to solve this crisis. Now is the time to beat the doors of change and save the boundaries and future of America.

But the federal government has failed miserably to produce a viable solution to the illegal immigration crisis.

Amnesty is not the answer. And immigration laws aren't effective if we continue to dodge or ignore them. Furthermore, globalization efforts have only confused security matters, further endangering our borders and national identity -- our sovereignty. And the question that keeps coming to my mind is: How is it that we can secure borders in the Middle East but can't secure our own?

From America's birth, our Founders struggled, too, with international enemies and border troubles, from the sea of Tripoli to the western frontier. While welcoming the poor, downtrodden and persecuted from every country, they also had to protect the sacred soil they called home from unwanted intruders.

America's Founders also were concerned with properly assimilating immigrants so that their presence would be positive upon the culture.
George Washington wrote, "By an intermixture with our people, they, or their descendants, get assimilated to our customs, measures, laws: in a word soon become one people."
Thomas Jefferson, hailed as one of the most inclusive among the Founders, worried that some immigrants would leave more restrictive governments and not be able to handle American freedoms, leading to cultural corruption and "an unbounded licentiousness, passing, as is usual, from one extreme to another.
It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty. These principles, with their language, they will transmit to their children. In proportion to their number, they will share with us the legislation. They will infuse into it their spirit, warp and bias its direction, and render it a heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass."
And Alexander Hamilton insisted that "the safety of a republic depends essentially on the energy of a common national sentiment; on a uniformity of principles and habits; on the exemption of citizens from foreign bias and prejudice; and on the love of country, which will almost invariably be found to be closely connected with birth, education, and family."

According to the Declaration of Independence, "obstructing the Laws for the Naturalization of Foreigners" was one of the objections leveled against Britain that warranted the American colonists' seceding. Yet even the Founders themselves believed that a total open-door policy for immigrants would only lead to complete community and cultural chaos.

We are discussing and debating new ways to resolve the social crisis we call illegal immigration, but our Founders pointed the way more than 200 years ago. Like enrolling in an Ivy League school, American citizenship was considered and promoted by them as a high honor. James Madison shared the collective sentiment back then when he stated, "I do not wish that any man should acquire the privilege, but such as would be a real addition to the wealth or strength of the United States." Hence, they processed applicants and selected only the ones who would contribute to the building up and advancement of their grand experiment called America.

Therefore, our Founders enforced four basic requirements for "enrollment and acceptance" into American citizenry. We still utilize them (at least in policy) to this day, but we desperately need to enforce them. The Heritage Foundation summarizes: "Key criteria for citizenship of the Naturalization Act of 1795 remain part of American law. These include:
(1) five years of (lawful) residence within the United States;
(2) a 'good moral character, attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States';
(3) the taking of a formal oath to support the Constitution and to renounce any foreign allegiance; and
(4) the renunciation of any hereditary titles."

Just think if such immigration tenets were taught in schools such as Live Oak High School, in Northern California, where kids are confused about allegiances to flags and countries. And just think if the federal government actually enforced such tenets! Arizona and the 10 other states following suit wouldn't even need to go out on a limb and create their own immigration laws as states did prior to our Constitution. If we held citizenship in the same high esteem as our Founders and simply enforced the laws we already have, we wouldn't be in this illegal immigration pickle today.


Damn racist Founders
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

kimba1

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Re: Immigration and our Founders
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2010, 02:02:19 PM »
tell  me if i`m wrong
one of problems arizona has is low conviction or watered down convictions of illegals.
meaning even if the federal government finally go off it`s lazy ass and did something the problems will not be that fully address.

I`m just trying to point out this is alot bigger then people think it is

sirs

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Re: Immigration and our Founders
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2010, 02:34:54 PM »
I don't think anyone is claiming or even assuming this law will "fix" the illegal immigration problems of this country.  It's simply a step in the right direction, specifically for the state of AZ.  But as was noted, while all these small "santucary cities" are having coniption fits, ignorantly claiming racism, more cities, such as Costa Mesa, and at least 10 other states are looking to adopt similar legislation.

So much for the boycotts
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

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Re: Immigration and our Founders
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2010, 02:40:04 PM »
The article conflates citizenship with immigration.

Citizenship and residency are not the same thing. The words are not synonyms. They are not interchangeable. Immigration and becoming a citizen are two different things. Conflating two is stupid.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

sirs

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Re: Immigration and our Founders
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2010, 02:43:09 PM »
The article references how people would immigrate to this country, in order to become citizens.  The issue remains in how to enter America, however.  For those who don't wish to become citizens, there are other LEGAL pathways to coming here simply to work, if they so desire.

Key point being LEGAL 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Immigration and our Founders
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2010, 02:54:03 PM »
Watching U.S. members of the House and Senate, and the president's Cabinet in a joint session of Congress stand and applaud Mexican President Felipe Calderon's slam of Arizona's new immigration enforcement law, I thought, "What a despicable act of disloyalty to one of their own states and a ludicrous leadership move to boot, especially when 71 percent of Arizonians agree with its new immigration law. "

President Calderon, how can you possibly criticize the state of Arizona about its newly passed immigration law, when Mexico's immigration law states:
-- Immigrants can't be an economic burden.
-- Immigrants must be healthy.
-- Immigrants must have no criminal record.
-- Immigrants must show a birth certificate.
-- Immigrants must provide their own health care.
-- Government can ban foreigners due to race.
-- Illegal entry is a felony (resulting in jail time).
-- Illegal immigrants can receive no government assistance of any kind.
-- Illegal immigrants' children may not attend public schools.
-- Document fraud is subject to fine/jail.
-- Incarceration and deportation of illegals occurs without due process or a trial.
-- A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the goal of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison.
-- Federal, local and municipal police must enforce immigration laws, including checking "papers" of suspected illegals

(sirs answer, blatant ignorance on the part of Calderone.  He likely hasn't read the bill either)

Mexican law actually shares similar strictness with how America's founders dealt responsibly and forcefully with immigration law. In Part 1, I concluded by outlining key criteria for citizenship from the Naturalization Act of 1795, which remain part of American law. These include: "1) five years of (lawful) residence within the United States; 2) a 'good moral character, attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States'; 3) the taking of a formal oath to support the Constitution and to renounce any foreign allegiance; and 4) the renunciation of any hereditary titles."

In order for us to regain control of the chaotic mess and national disunity posed by illegals and press on to achieve the success our forefathers had in immigration, I believe we must apply those four criteria to our naturalization process in a more practical way.

First, Congress must stop the flow of illegal immigration by putting up a viable border fence and reinforcing it by whatever means necessary. Then it must refocus the streams of immigration.

In order for the sheer force of Niagara Falls to be harnessed into usable energy, it must be intentionally funneled through proper and restrictive channels. I believe the same must be done with immigration or ultimately we will hand our sovereignty over to other nations on a populous platter.

Our forefathers increased and decreased the influx of certain peoples because America was not only building a melting pot of ethnicities but securities and degrees of productivity. Today, with America having achieved that great diversity, of course we shouldn't regulate the flows of immigration based upon ethnicity. Rather, we should regulate them based upon societal needs for balance, stability and growth, just as our founders did.

James Madison spoke for most founders as he gave the purpose for immigration: "Not merely to swell the catalogue of people. No, sir, it is to increase the wealth and strength of the community; and those who acquire the rights of citizenship, without adding to the strength or wealth of the community, are not the people we are in want of."

As I mentioned, we can't properly deal with the illegals within our borders until we've stopped the flow of any more at our borders. Then, and only then, can we turn our attention to the millions already residing in our country. What I then propose for them is not amnesty in any package, but a onetime solution based upon the 1790-1795 immigration law that would separate the wheat from the chaff, straining out potentially productive and law-abiding citizens who will pay their fair share of taxes as residents.

I would give illegal immigrants already here a three-month grace period to apply for a temporary worker's visa. If they failed to apply within that time frame, they would be considered fugitives, and would be found and deported. Once they applied and qualified for a temporary worker's visa, these immigrants would be placed on a two-year probationary period (the original 1790 requirement of residency). At the completion of that time, and if they remained in good standing, they would be issued a permanent worker's visa. And, after an additional three years (completing the five-year residency requirement from the Naturalization Act of 1795), they would qualify to apply for U.S. citizenship.

During their two-year probationary period, it would be their responsibility to check in to assigned governing officials and prove their productivity and progress as a part of the American landscape. Criteria would of course be established by Congress (as the Constitution requires), but enforced by local probationary personnel from the departments of naturalization, in a similar way that probation officers monitor people on probation. If immigrants don't "check in," and do not have a good reason for not doing so, they will be deported. If they are law-breakers, they will be deported. If they don't demonstrate a good moral standing and aren't productive members of their community, they will be deported.

This is how America was built, and it is how it can be rebuilt again today -- if
- we finally secure our borders,
- better regulate the influx of immigrants to meet and build up societal needs,
- and offer a responsible path to citizenship for immigrants who are already working here and want to become productive American citizens.

Damn Nazi Founders


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

kimba1

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Re: Immigration and our Founders
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2010, 03:08:17 PM »
Citizenship and residency are not the same thing. The words are not synonyms. They are not interchangeable.

not the same true but thiers been abit more than one case when american borns has been deported.
remember american citizen don`t carry proof of citizenship,that state ID doesn`t always work.

sirs

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Re: Immigration and our Founders
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2010, 03:39:53 PM »
a LEGAL State ID happens to work for AZ, IIRC
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

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Re: Immigration and our Founders
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2010, 04:50:48 PM »

Key point being LEGAL


Again with the all caps. And you do it with the word 'legal' as if somehow the disagreement was about allowing people to break the law. It isn't. But you know that.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

sirs

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Re: Immigration and our Founders
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2010, 04:54:04 PM »
Some folks like to gloss over that fact, and blurr illegal with justifyable, which is why the caps
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

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Re: Immigration and our Founders
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2010, 05:07:25 PM »
Whatever helps you justify shouting at people.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

sirs

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Re: Immigration and our Founders
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2010, 05:19:01 PM »
Sorry, if your use of caps and my use are 2 different tactics.  Kinda like the chasm of thought to AZ law that supposedly targets an ethnicity/race, (despite clear wording that it doesn't) vs AZ law that targets crime that most often is perpetrated by those who have a similar racial appearance
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

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Re: Immigration and our Founders
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2010, 06:18:28 PM »
Whatever helps you justify government control.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

sirs

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Re: Immigration and our Founders
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2010, 06:23:23 PM »
Government control in doing their constitutionally mandated job of protecting this country and enforcing current immigration law.  God, what could I have been thinking??        :o
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

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Re: Immigration and our Founders
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2010, 06:43:38 PM »
Whatever helps you justify your Us v. Them mentality.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--