A Warning for America from South Africa

[Michael Tee]

<<You are deeply stuck in the past.>>

He who forgets his history is doomed to repeat it.  I'm "deeply stuck in the past" but you're the one who brought up the wonderful world of White Rhodesia, when blacks streamed across the border to Racist Paradise.

<<Neither White or black should be subject to injustice.>>

Yes but that shouldn't mean that Whitey gets a Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card for his past racist crimes and atrocities.

<<The persuasion for justice would have been very weak if the promise was for injustice to be preserved in reversal.>>

What on earth is "unjust" when racist criminals are made to pay for their racist crimes?

[Plane]

<<You are deeply stuck in the past.>>

He who forgets his history is doomed to repeat it.  I'm "deeply stuck in the past" but you're the one who brought up the wonderful world of White Rhodesia, when blacks streamed across the border to Racist Paradise.

<<Neither White or black should be subject to injustice.>>

Yes but that shouldn't mean that Whitey gets a Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card for his past racist crimes and atrocities.

<<The persuasion for justice would have been very weak if the promise was for injustice to be preserved in reversal.>>

What on earth is "unjust" when racist criminals are made to pay for their racist crimes?

It is good to compare the actual past to the actual present.

Compareing the empty promises of the past to the empty retoric of the present is easyer .

 Injustice is justified by the crimes of your ancestors? Who can't find a justification for that?

Paying for being white is evil not a bit less than paying for being black.

Why should any party in power ever give over any advantage? A lot of White people were persuaded that the advantage was unfair and uneeded , if the real truth was that the unfairness would return then the uneeded part was not true was it?

[Michael Tee]

<<Injustice is justified by the crimes of your ancestors?>>

Ancestors, my ass!  In Zimbabwe, many of the whites were alive and participated in the racist crimes of the white racist government.  Others are inheritors of the wealth stolen from the black majority by the white racists and farmed with the black labour that they exploited.  Cry me a fucking river.

[Plane]

<<Injustice is justified by the crimes of your ancestors?>>

Ancestors, my ass!  In Zimbabwe, many of the whites were alive and participated in the racist crimes of the white racist government.  Others are inheritors of the wealth stolen from the black majority by the white racists and farmed with the black labour that they exploited.  Cry me a fucking river.

Then should they have ever given up to fairness ?

If fairness equalled death every time it would be a lot less popular.

[Michael Tee]

<<Then should they have ever given up to fairness ?>>

Who says they gave up to "fairness?"  They knew the situation was hopeless, so they tried to pretend that they'd finally seen the light.  Fooling almost nobody.

<<If fairness equalled death every time it would be a lot less popular.>>

"Death to the oppressor!"  isn't ever going to be very popular in the oppressor nations but it doesn't depend on popularity among the oppressors to find its way forward, it depends instead on armed struggle.

[Plane]

<<Then should they have ever given up to fairness ?>>

Who says they gave up to "fairness?"  They knew the situation was hopeless, so they tried to pretend that they'd finally seen the light.  Fooling almost nobody.

<<If fairness equalled death every time it would be a lot less popular.>>

"Death to the oppressor!"  isn't ever going to be very popular in the oppressor nations but it doesn't depend on popularity among the oppressors to find its way forward, it depends instead on armed struggle.

You are makeing a good case for white solidarity . Having the upper hand around the world White supremeacy was accomplished . Talked into acheivements of fairness rather than being the fittest most of the change was volentary.

[Michael Tee]

<<You are makeing a good case for white solidarity . Having the upper hand around the world White supremeacy was accomplished . >>

That upper hand was kind of losing its grip, wasn't it?  In China, in India, in French Indochina, in Algeria . . .  all over the world, Whitey's ass was getting kicked.   From a white POV in Rhodesia, it must have looked like they were next.  Numerically overwhelmed.  Abandoned by the home country, the former imperialist super-power.  WTF?  Though some talked the talk of die-hard white racists everywhere, common sense (not "fairness" or any other Boy Scout shit) won out and Whitey caved.  Again, seemingly, fooling nobody but you with their pretence of having finally seen the light.  Fairness, my ass!

<<Talked into acheivements of fairness rather than being the fittest most of the change was volentary.>>

Bullshit.

[Plane]

<<You are makeing a good case for white solidarity . Having the upper hand around the world White supremeacy was accomplished . >>

That upper hand was kind of losing its grip, wasn't it?  In China, in India, in French Indochina, in Algeria . . .  all over the world, Whitey's ass was getting kicked.   From a white POV in Rhodesia, it must have looked like they were next.  Numerically overwhelmed.  Abandoned by the home country, the former imperialist super-power.  WTF?  Though some talked the talk of die-hard white racists everywhere, common sense (not "fairness" or any other Boy Scout shit) won out and Whitey caved.  Again, seemingly, fooling nobody but you with their pretence of having finally seen the light.  Fairness, my ass!

<<Talked into acheivements of fairness rather than being the fittest most of the change was volentary.>>

Bullshit.

Oh yes?

When the European attitude was uniformly bad they put a foot on almost every neck.

Why not stay there?

Did you totally ignore Gandi and Dr Martin Luther King Jr?

[Michael Tee]

<<Why not stay there?

<<Did you totally ignore Gandi and Dr Martin Luther King Jr?>>

More or less, I did.  Gandhi was the spearhead or the focus of the Indian independence movement, but it didn't start or end with him.  What finished the Raj was the toll of the Second World War on Great Britain.  They were finished, spent, as an imperialist power.  Not only India, but all of their African colonies soon freed themselves from the bondage of colonialism.  It was a burden that the British could no longer afford to bear.  They just couldn't afford it.

Dr. King basically followed around a booming post-war drive for black equality.  He didn't initiate the sit-ins or the boycotts, he followed them and gave them voice.  Basically it was the student radicals who organized these protests from the grassroots up, and not Dr. King, who created the images of firehoses and police dogs, of white racist mobs cracking skulls and spewing hate.   As long as the TV networks continued to cover the news, America was getting a black eye in the eyes of the world every day this kind of shit continued.  Finally the U.S. Congress got the message, they realized that white racism was a luxury they could no longer afford if they were trying to convince the rest of the world that their way was better than the Communist way.  It was not Dr. King that they were giving in to, it was the images on TV that the student radicals had created.

[Xavier_Onassis]

What made the Birmingham Bus Boycott successful was the fact that there were enough Black people who owned their own cars to sustain the boycott. Also, in years past, there were enough White passengers to keep the buses profitable. By the '60's there were so many Whites driving themselves to work that there were not enough White passengers to keep the bus company solvent when the Blacks refused to take the bus.

Economics was a big factor in the success of the Civil Rights Movement: when most of the Blacks were out in the fields picking cotton, mass movements were impossible, because there was a lack of masses. New agricultural machinery forced Blacks into the cities when the sharecropping system and manual labor gradually was becoming extinct.

Freedom rides were possible only because there were national bus systems, like Greyhound and Trailways, that relocated passengers according to Jim Crow laws. The lunch counters that were targets of sit-ins were national chains, like Woolworth, that could be boycotted in their Northern stores for refusal to serve Blacks in the South. Locally owned lunch counters had to wait for the Civil Rights Laws.

[Plane]

What made the Birmingham Bus Boycott successful was the fact that there were enough Black people who owned their own cars to sustain the boycott. Also, in years past, there were enough White passengers to keep the buses profitable. By the '60's there were so many Whites driving themselves to work that there were not enough White passengers to keep the bus company solvent when the Blacks refused to take the bus.

Economics was a big factor in the success of the Civil Rights Movement: when most of the Blacks were out in the fields picking cotton, mass movements were impossible, because there was a lack of masses. New agricultural machinery forced Blacks into the cities when the sharecropping system and manual labor gradually was becoming extinct.

Freedom rides were possible only because there were national bus systems, like Greyhound and Trailways, that relocated passengers according to Jim Crow laws. The lunch counters that were targets of sit-ins were national chains, like Woolworth, that could be boycotted in their Northern stores for refusal to serve Blacks in the South. Locally owned lunch counters had to wait for the Civil Rights Laws.

That is a good point, Black people makeing economic advancement was enableing to other sorts of advancement.