Author Topic: Merle  (Read 4703 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16143
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Merle
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2010, 04:57:50 PM »
Quote
Well Kramer I wonder how YOU'D react to a song threatening to punch your lights out it you choose to express your views on a particular subject?

Inquiring minds need to know.

Do you think the number of people who had their ass kicked because of the lyrics to this song is less than, equal to or more than the number who got their ass kicked because they deigned to not show solidarity with striking union workers and applied for open jobs on the other side of a picket line.






Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Merle
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2010, 10:17:40 PM »
<<That is why nobody liked to be there , if they know the whole of it. >>

Who says "nobody liked to be there?"  Kind of a ludicrous statement considering there are more people there than in any other country on the face of the earth.

<<Wherever keeping the facts from the people is important to do, the people ought to show suspicion, lots .>>

Again your understanding of life in a communist country seems to be formed wholly from the unthinking absorption of decades of bullshit Cold War propaganda, with absolutely no connection to objective reality.

First of all, you don't "keep the facts" from the people who live there.  They are smart enough to know when they've got food in their bellies and a roof over their head.  They know if their kids are in school getting an education or not.  At any scholastic level.  They know if they have access to medical care when they get sick or injured, and they can form an opinion of the quality of medical care based on a number of things, the doctor's attitude to them, his apparent grasp of the subject matter and the results obtained.  They know from conversations at the family dinner table how their situation compares with their parents' and their grandparents' situation, how the family lived before the Revolution and how it lives after.  And they know all of that intimately - - far better than you or I or any of the CNN/MSNBC/etc. news media know or will ever tell you.

The people are suspicious when they have cause to be suspicious, trusting when they feel its time to trust.  They certainly don't need YOU or any other American to tell them when they ought to be suspicious of their leaders.  That is the height of arrogance.

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Merle
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2010, 10:25:03 PM »
In other words, shut up, do as your told, and everything will be just fine
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Merle
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2010, 10:26:25 PM »
<<Do you think the number of people who had their ass kicked because of the lyrics to this song is less than, equal to or more than the number who got their ass kicked because they deigned to not show solidarity with striking union workers and applied for open jobs on the other side of a picket line.>>

Good question but impossible to answer.  We don't know how many people got their ass kicked because some shithead crypto-Nazis were listening to Merle Haggard's song, so it's kind of hard to tell.

Do you think the number of people who got their ass kicked because they deigned to not show solidarity with striking union workers is less than, equal to or more than the number  of union organizers and early joiners who got beat up, murdered or disappeared by company goons, scabs and strikebreakers?

Inquiring minds need to know.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16143
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Merle
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2010, 10:41:49 PM »
I would think "scabs' would be either ahead or gaining rapidly to claim the mantle of victim.

When is the last time a union boss got offed by Pinkerton?

100 years ago?

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Merle
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2010, 10:05:36 AM »
Funny you should ask, being from Georgia yourself.  Ever hear of a place called Gainesville?

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Merle
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2010, 11:15:29 AM »
I find it rather worthless to debate the intellectual content of a country music song about some fool who wants to fight with those he disagrees with.

This is like putting forth "Okie from Muskogee" as a valid argument about utopian ideas.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16143
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Merle
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2010, 12:26:42 PM »
Funny you should ask, being from Georgia yourself.  Ever hear of a place called Gainesville?

Yeah, we beat them for the state championship in football in 69. Big into poultry.




Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Merle
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2010, 12:31:57 PM »
First of all, you don't "keep the facts" from the people who live there.  They are smart enough to know when they've got food in their bellies and a roof over their head. 


Are you still giveing Communism credit for feeding the people better than previous or post communist regimes , with no such evidence at all?

I think you are far too little a sceptic.

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Merle
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2010, 01:47:36 PM »
<<Are you still giveing Communism credit for feeding the people better than previous or post communist regimes , with no such evidence at all?>>

Yeah, I was there and I saw it.  Homeless and street people all over the fucking place. Orphans camping out in the streets.   Retired old folks working two jobs day and night to make ends meet.  Billion-dollar state industries sold off to "the people" for worthless share certificates, that you could buy hundreds of at any street bazaar for nothing more than pocket change.  Drunks lying out in the fucking streets and gutters.  In Odessa, you had to step over their bodies on the sidewalks because the gutters were full.  University chemistry professors moonlighting as maitre-d's at nightclubs in Moscow.  I understand the life expectancy stats took a real nose-dive after the fall of communism too.

<<I think you are far too little a sceptic.>>

And I think YOU don't know WTF you are talking about.

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Merle
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2010, 01:54:04 PM »
<<Are you still giveing Communism credit for feeding the people better than previous or post communist regimes , with no such evidence at all?>>

Yeah, I was there and I saw it.  Homeless and street people all over the fucking place. Orphans camping out in the streets.   Retired old folks working two jobs day and night to make ends meet.  Billion-dollar state industries sold off to "the people" for worthless share certificates, that you could buy hundreds of at any street bazaar for nothing more than pocket change.  Drunks lying out in the fucking streets and gutters.  In Odessa, you had to step over their bodies on the sidewalks because the gutters were full.  University chemistry professors moonlighting as maitre-d's at nightclubs in Moscow.  I understand the life expectancy stats took a real nose-dive after the fall of communism too.

<<I think you are far too little a sceptic.>>

And I think YOU don't know WTF you are talking about.

I don't think you saw any change at all , just the curtain fell and the pretense was dropped.

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Merle
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2010, 02:04:21 PM »
<<I don't think you saw any change at all , just the curtain fell and the pretense was dropped.>>

You really oughtta talk to some people, plane.  They KNOW how they lived before the fall of communism and they know how they lived after.  Some of the examples I gave were real-life people my wife and I spoke with.  There was no "curtain."  Communism looked after them, capitalism didn't.  Pure and simple.  But you are committed to one POV and all the evidence in the world won't shake your commitment.  I suppose the life-expectancy stats were faked by the Commies and Yeltsin just let the cat out of the bag, eh?

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Merle
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2010, 03:08:34 PM »
<<I don't think you saw any change at all , just the curtain fell and the pretense was dropped.>>

You really oughtta talk to some people, plane.  They KNOW how they lived before the fall of communism and they know how they lived after.  Some of the examples I gave were real-life people my wife and I spoke with.  There was no "curtain."  Communism looked after them, capitalism didn't.  Pure and simple.
 

The pure and simple part is largely 1 point that advocates that the Government "take care of you", while the other advocates Freedom to make one's own choices in life.  And one of the evil parts to Communism, is it HAS to take from those who want freedom, HAS to take the labors & $$$ from those who want liberty, to feed the government beast to make Communism work

I'll take Freedom, thank you

And folks will continue to note, no "insults", no calling Tee a liar, merely debate inspired rhetoric.  If Tee wants to keep lying about what sirs supposedly does, that's also wide open for all to see


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Merle
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2010, 05:15:37 PM »
<<I don't think you saw any change at all , just the curtain fell and the pretense was dropped.>>

You really oughtta talk to some people, plane.  They KNOW how they lived before the fall of communism and they know how they lived after.  Some of the examples I gave were real-life people my wife and I spoke with.  There was no "curtain."  Communism looked after them, capitalism didn't.  Pure and simple.
 

The pure and simple part is largely 1 point that advocates that the Government "take care of you", while the other advocates Freedom to make one's own choices in life.  And one of the evil parts to Communism, is it HAS to take from those who want freedom, HAS to take the labors & $$$ from those who want liberty, to feed the government beast to make Communism work

I'll take Freedom, thank you

Ronald Reagan, 1986:
Memorial Day is an occasion of special importance to all Americans, because it is a day sacred to the memory of all those Americans who made the supreme sacrifice for the liberties we enjoy. We will never forget or fail to honor these heroes to whom we owe so much. We honor them best when we resolve to cherish and defend the liberties for which they gave their lives. Let us resolve to do all in our power to assure the survival and the success of liberty so that our children and their children for generations to come can live in an America in which freedom?s light continues to shine.

The Congress, in establishing Memorial Day, called for it to be a day of tribute to America?s fallen, and also a day of national prayer for lasting peace. This Nation has always sought true peace. We seek it still. Our goal is peace in which the highest aspirations of our people, and people everywhere, are secure: peace with freedom, with justice, and with opportunity for human development. This is the permanent peace for which we pray, not only for ourselves but for all generations.

The defense of peace, like the defense of liberty, requires more than lip service. It requires vigilance, military strength, and the willingness to take risks and to make sacrifices. The surest guarantor of both peace and liberty is our unflinching resolve to defend that which has been purchased for us by our fallen heroes.


On Memorial Day, let us pray for peace ? not only for ourselves, but for all those who seek freedom and justice.

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Merle
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2010, 09:18:25 PM »
<<I don't think you saw any change at all , just the curtain fell and the pretense was dropped.>>

You really oughtta talk to some people, plane.  They KNOW how they lived before the fall of communism and they know how they lived after.  Some of the examples I gave were real-life people my wife and I spoke with.  There was no "curtain."  Communism looked after them, capitalism didn't.  Pure and simple.  But you are committed to one POV and all the evidence in the world won't shake your commitment.  I suppose the life-expectancy stats were faked by the Commies and Yeltsin just let the cat out of the bag, eh?

Well put!
What stats provided by Mousoulini do you trust?

Did the world know how much environmental polution was produced in Asia during the USSR tenure?

What happened to the Aral sea?(one of the worlds great lakes , seems to be missing)

Yes we learned a lot of stuff when the Communists fell to peaces , by the way how did they fall to peaces if everyone was satisfied ?