You've got to be frellin kidding me

[sirs]

I'm not a business major, Kimba, but if I'm running a company, and it costs me FAR less in materials, supply, transport, inspections, and safety, in 1 area vs another I'm going to go with it......unless I'm not allowed

[Kramer]

Interesting that you apply economics, Kimba.  Lemme see, miles of piping and construction, in water over a mile deep, and oil that was discovered about 5 miles deep + the obligations of trying to apply safety standards to aquiring oil that deep, with the potential (now seen as real) catastrophic consequences of a major clean-up = $$$$$$$$   vs piping & construction of a fraction of the cost to the company (much shorter length pipes & equipment) + much greater ability at applying both the safety inspections and clean-up containment, in the event of a spill = $$


you did not factor immediate cost of drilling closer to the shore. remember local economy cost.

after the fact it looks like peanuts, but at the time to decide where to drill thats alot of money  going to something thast produce no income for the company

looking at the bigger picture, there are people out there, let's call them environmentalists, they don't want you to drill anywhere.

[kimba1]

money is not always a over ridding factor in business.
oracle pulled some of it`s contract in india because they`re execs are not allow in the business meetings thier.

safeway made huge profits in the marina S.F. but jumped at leaving when it had the chance. way too many zoning compliances.

ike of ike place is leaving S.F. , which the very reason he has the ability to stay is the reason he`s leaving. he is so succesful he can make enough money stay at his location, but just don`t need the hassle.

[sirs]

money is not always a over ridding factor in business.

*snicker*......don't let the likes of Tee or Xo catch you saying that

[kimba1]

in fact i think I can use kramer for this

kramer you said you run your own business because you didn`t want to the headache of certain people.

but you never mention money , so can you confirm money isn`t the only factor?

[Kramer]

in fact i think I can use kramer for this

kramer you said you run your own business because you didn`t want to the headache of certain people.

but you never mention money , so can you confirm money isn`t the only factor?

Well a person has to make a minimum amount of money, whether they are self-employed or employed by some other means. With that said, I'm very happy where I'm at but if I wasn't at that minimum point I would have to do something like go find a good enough paying job in order to have income that is enough to pay all the bills and have enough left over for other expenses.

Over all money isn't the biggest motivating factor for me. I would be happy making $20,000 a year more but at the same time if I made $20,000 less I would still want to have my own business and would still be happy.

But bear in mind my income is directly tied to my productivity not necessarily how hard I work. I can get a lot done in a very short period because I work smart.

[kimba1]

work smart

I won`t say I do that.

but if you got a particulary umpleasent job, would you turn it down ? I`ve found that some jobs are not really worth doing and money just couldn`t fix it. my company did that and lost a few employess for thier troubles. lets just say having a micro-managing client is not worth having. we literally had to hire temps to cover the last 6 months of the contract.

[Kramer]

work smart

I won`t say I do that.

but if you got a particulary umpleasent job, would you turn it down ? I`ve found that some jobs are not really worth doing and money just couldn`t fix it. my company did that and lost a few employess for thier troubles. lets just say having a micro-managing client is not worth having. we literally had to hire temps to cover the last 6 months of the contract.

I don't do services I do products but yes I will turn down certain sales opportunities if it involves too small a profit margin or it isn't worth my while, and or has a chance of coming back, or might cause me to look bad in some way shape or form.

[Plane]

work smart

I won`t say I do that.

but if you got a particulary umpleasent job, would you turn it down ? I`ve found that some jobs are not really worth doing and money just couldn`t fix it. my company did that and lost a few employess for thier troubles. lets just say having a micro-managing client is not worth having. we literally had to hire temps to cover the last 6 months of the contract.

Familiar with the D200 database?

I don't do services I do products but yes I will turn down certain sales opportunities if it involves too small a profit margin or it isn't worth my while, and or has a chance of coming back, or might cause me to look bad in some way shape or form. In case you might wonder my primary customer is the US military. Most of my business is centered around maintaining and specifically rebuilding F-18's and other aircraft. Machine tools, aviation tools, consumables, safety equipment and other MRO stuff.

[Kramer]

Familiar with the D200 database?

no

[sirs]

money is not always a over ridding factor in business.
oracle pulled some of it`s contract in india because they`re execs are not allow in the business meetings thier.

safeway made huge profits in the marina S.F. but jumped at leaving when it had the chance. way too many zoning compliances.

ike of ike place is leaving S.F. , which the very reason he has the ability to stay is the reason he`s leaving. he is so succesful he can make enough money stay at his location, but just don`t need the hassle.

You've helped reinforce points I've already made.  That of insidious regulations impairing one's ability at making money in a certain location, and that of not having any hassles, while still making good money in a certain area.

Kimba, one of my patients is an engineer, who has helped design and construct many off shore oil rigs.  I mentioned your theories to him, that you've posed, and he just kept shaking his head, in disbelief.  When it comes to these oil platforms vs safeways, the cost involved in buidling, running, and maintaining in water so deep is sooooooo expensive, compared to shallow water drilling.  The cost alone is staggering, BUT, if its the only areas they can drill, then that's where they drill.  If they could, they'd FAR more decide on shallow water drilling for precisely the points I've already made, superior amount of less money required to build, maintain, transport, and safety.  The rigs themselves provide great havens for increased fish populations, and when rigs are eventually abandoned, they become great artificial reefs, for even greater fishing populations

So, while other decisions may be involved in where to drill, besides cost, COST is still a primary factor in where oil companies would wish to drill, but all too often, Government and their restrictions are what prevent them from drilling in shallower waters, where catastrophes like the Deep Water Horizen could have been plugged/stopped in days, if not hours.  And the only reason they were out that far, is because they were restricted from coming in closer, NOT because they chose to drill that far out

[kimba1]

I`ll  back that these rigs are relatively safe, but the problem is the percieved risk. I have no doubts these rigs are not harmful to the fish , but those fish would not be desireable to many for purchase. your patient is gonna have a even worst headache now, because I`m not the person to convince ,but the people directly impacted by the spill that shallow drilling is a good idea.

[sirs]

Sorry Kimba, but his direct knowledge, and just simple common sense, produces a conclusion that reinforces that if they could, drilling would occur in far shallower waters, than what the Deep Water Horizon was made to endure.  Both in exponentially less cost to company and in much greater potential containment of any blow-out, which occured here.

By the way, you mention "perceived risk".  Ignoring for the moment the increased fish populatings that would & HAVE occured in these shallower water rigs, can you cite me the last offshore oil rig that blew??  I mean, they've been drilling in the oceans for decades, with hundreds of oil rigs having been built, if not more.  Surely you can site for us this justified risk that has come to prior fruition.

[Kramer]

Sorry Kimba, but his direct knowledge, and just simple common sense, produces a conclusion that reinforces that if they could, drilling would occur in far shallower waters, than what the Deep Water Horizon was made to endure.  Both in exponentially less cost to company and in much greater potential containment of any blow-out, which occured here.

By the way, you mention "perceived risk".  Ignoring for the moment the increased fish populatings that would & HAVE occured in these shallower water rigs, can you cite me the last offshore oil rig that blew??  I mean, they've been drilling in the oceans for decades, with hundreds of oil rigs having been built, if not more.  Surely you can site for us this justified risk that has come to prior fruition.

I honestly would not be surprised if it turned out that a environmental group blew the rig up.

[sirs]

From what I've read so far, they couldn't have, though the explosion was likely human error.  I'll have to keep reading more on the sequence of events, that led to the explosion, and what occured following