McChrystal fired.....Obama picks Petraeus for Afghanistan

[Stray Pup]

Obama has immense charisma, but no significant political experience.  The Dems ultimately wanted him, in my opinion mostly because of this charisma.  He speaks well (perhaps this is what you meant when you said he talks white) is a fantastic orator and is overall a much more likeable, personable guy than McCain... at least to the undecided voter.

I really can't say that they didn't push the race card to its absolute limit, but i'd say it's about 50-50.  If the Hildebeast had been elected they would have played the sex card.  2008 was all about changing the formula.  It made the voters who were undecided excited about playing some minor part in that change.

The idealistic opinion that our votes actually in some way matter in the grand scheme of things; the concept that if "our guy" doesn't get the office all hell will break loose and if he does it will reign in a new golden age.  

Obama won because he was black, was a good speaker, was basically a celebrity, and because Bush was so unpopular.  Not one thing mentioned here makes him fit to lead the free world.  And with the party lines getting so extreme, that's not what it's about anymore.  It's about having a face who can win the elections so that the party can be in power.

[Edit:  And incidentally, Kramer, I love your avatar.   ]

[Kramer]

Obama has immense charisma, but no significant political experience.  The Dems ultimately wanted him, in my opinion mostly because of this charisma.  He speaks well (perhaps this is what you meant when you said he talks white) is a fantastic orator and is overall a much more likeable, personable guy than McCain... at least to the undecided voter.

I really can't say that they didn't push the race card to its absolute limit, but i'd say it's about 50-50.  If the Hildebeast had been elected they would have played the sex card.  2008 was all about changing the formula.  It made the voters who were undecided excited about playing some minor part in that change.

The idealistic opinion that our votes actually in some way matter in the grand scheme of things; the concept that if "our guy" doesn't get the office all hell will break loose and if he does it will reign in a new golden age.  

Obama won because he was black, was a good speaker, was basically a celebrity, and because Bush was so unpopular.  Not one thing mentioned here makes him fit to lead the free world.  And with the party lines getting so extreme, that's not what it's about anymore.  It's about having a face who can win the elections so that the party can be in power.

[Edit:  And incidentally, Kramer, I love your avatar.   ]

Well said

[Plane]

<<Many whites voted for him out of white guilt.>>

Is that so?  How many whites who stayed home or voted against him did so because he was black?

Who might you be thinking of?

Republicans were unlikely to vote for him even if he looked like John Edwards.

Soooo....

Are you calling up the possibility that he would have gotten many more votes if only the Democrats were not such racists?


I can't see you demonstrating that his being black cost him so much as 3% of the vote , which is all the more I am willing to admit as possible , even though I am speaking exclusively of (bleagh) Democrats.

[Kramer]

<<Many whites voted for him out of white guilt.>>

Is that so?  How many whites who stayed home or voted against him did so because he was black?

Who might you be thinking of?

Republicans were unlikely to vote for him even if he looked like John Edwards.

Soooo....

Are you calling up the possibility that he would have gotten many more votes if only the Democrats were not such racists?


I can't see you demonstrating that his being black cost him so much as 3% of the vote , which is all the more I am willing to admit as possible , even though I am speaking exclusively of (bleagh) Democrats.

Oh no Plane because he is black Repubs should have voted for him, and since they voted for McCain then they must be racist and hate black people. That also goes for Michael Steel. That's what you call Mikey logic.

[sirs]

Pretty much, yea     

[BT]

Or perhaps he already sold out to the real rulers of the country and he disappointed me because I thought he'd stand up to them.

Guess you were wrong.

[Michael Tee]

<<Who might you be thinking of [that stayed home or voted against Obama because he was black?]>>

Moderate Republicans and independents, many of whom were turned off the GOP because of Bush and his appalling record.  Kramer seems to think he got votes for being black, I think he probably lost more votes for being black than he gained for being black.

<<Republicans were unlikely to vote for him even if he looked like John Edwards.>>

That's ridiculous.  Utter nonsense.  A lot of Republicans were fed up to the gills over the economy.  They were scared of losing jobs and homes if they still had them, and bitter if they had lost them.  Listening to McCain, who couldn't even tell a reporter how many homes he had, tell the country that the fundamentals of the economy were sound was NOT a sure-fire way to lock in the Republican vote.  Plenty of Republicans would have voted for any white Democrat in the Nov. 08 elections, the question is, how many of the racist bastards didn't, because of the colour of his skin.

<<Are you calling up the possibility that he would have gotten many more votes if only the Democrats were not such racists?>>

That's absurd.  2008 was not a year for Democrats to vote GOP, but a year for moderate Republicans and independants to vote Democratic.  You can assume that Obama received a much bigger chunk of the Democratic vote than McCain got of the Republican.



<<I can't see you demonstrating that his being black cost him so much as 3% of the vote . . . >>

I did not "demonstrate" anything.  Kramer alleged that Obama got votes for being black, I wondered how many he lost for the same reason.
 

[sirs]

<<Who might you be thinking of [that stayed home or voted against Obama because he was black?]>>

Moderate Republicans and independents, many of whom were turned off the GOP because of Bush and his appalling record.  Kramer seems to think he got votes for being black, I think he probably lost more votes for being black than he gained for being black.

Considering the massive amount of public demonstration by the "black community", voting for "one of their own" (what was that % again?) and constant references to this "historic event of the 1st U.S. Black President", while next to nil examples of those not voting for him, based solely on his skin color, I think your thought process is, dare I say, obviously, broken

But oh....that's right....lack of evidence is proof postive in Tee leaf land.  Sorry, my bad

 

<<Republicans were unlikely to vote for him even if he looked like John Edwards.>>

That's ridiculous.  Utter nonsense....APlenty of Republicans would have voted for any white Democrat in the Nov. 08 elections

NOT if they had the same liberal ideology that most all conservatives knew he had.  And news flash, that ideology has squat to do with skin color

 

[Plane]

<<I can't see you demonstrating that his being black cost him so much as 3% of the vote . . . >>

I did not "demonstrate" anything.  Kramer alleged that Obama got votes for being black, I wondered how many he lost for the same reason.
 

It is documented that 90%+ of black voters voted for Obama.

That is a pretty big result even if you posit that a lot of them would have voted Dem without the Melanin.

Where was any loss nearly so large?