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Henny

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Turkey recalls ambassador to US
« on: October 11, 2007, 02:25:02 PM »
Turkey recalls ambassador to US
Ankara is recalling its ambassador to Washington amid indignation at a bill in Congress recognising the mass killing of Armenians as genocide.
The passing of the bill by a House committee on Wednesday despite appeals by the Bush administration was denounced by President Abdullah Gul.

Turkey accepts there were mass killings in 1915-17 but denies genocide.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/7040366.stm

Richpo64

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Re: Turkey recalls ambassador to US
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2007, 02:27:56 PM »
While genocide continues in Africa, Congress with it's 11 percent approval rating condemns something nearly 100 years old.

Brilliant.

Henny

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Re: Turkey recalls ambassador to US
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2007, 02:31:17 PM »
While genocide continues in Africa, Congress with it's 11 percent approval rating condemns something nearly 100 years old.

Brilliant.

Not to mention the consequences of this action and how it may impact our troops and efforts in the region. This issue has been on the table for ages - I find myself wondering if it was passed just now specifically to undermine Bush?

Henny

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Re: Turkey recalls ambassador to US
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2007, 03:16:58 PM »
Turkey recalls ambassador over genocide resolution
Story Highlights
NEW: Turkish ambassador to Washington to head home

Rice expected to call Turkish leaders to express "deep disappointment" with vote

House panel vote calls killing of Armenians during World War I "genocide"

Turkey is a key U.S.-Mideast ally and conduit for supplies into Iraq


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Turkey has recalled its ambassador to the United States, Nabi Sensoy, in response to a House resolution that would call the World War I massacre of Armenians by Turkish forces "genocide," the Turkish Foreign Ministry said Thursday.

The House Foreign Affairs Committee passed the measure 27-21 on Wednesday evening, even though President Bush and key administration figures lobbied hard against it. The full House is expected to vote on it, possibly Friday.

A top Turkish official warned Thursday that consequences "won't be pleasant" if the full House approves the resolution.

"Yesterday some in Congress wanted to play hardball," said Egemen Bagis, foreign policy adviser to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. "I can assure you Turkey knows how to play hardball."

The administration is expected to try to persuade the Democratic leadership not to schedule a vote by the full House, according to The Associated Press.

But House Democratic leaders said earlier if the Foreign Affairs Committee passed the resolution, they intended to bring it to the House floor. Watch why the resolution stirs strong emotions ?

The House was not in session on Thursday because of the funeral of Rep. Jo Ann Davis of Virginia, who died on Saturday. Members may vote on the resolution on Friday.

Turkey, a NATO member, has been a key U.S. ally in the Middle East and a conduit for sending supplies into Iraq.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates said on Wednesday that good relations with Turkey are vital because 70 percent of the air cargo intended for U.S. forces in Iraq and 30 percent of the fuel consumed by those forces flies through Turkey.

U.S. commanders, Gates said, "believe clearly that access to airfields and roads and so on in Turkey would very much be put at risk if this resolution passes and the Turks react as strongly as we believe they will."

Bagis said since a French Parliament committee passed a similar resolution last year, no French planes have flown through Turkish airspace.

He said the response to the U.S. might not be the same, but warned if the full House passes it, "We will do something and I can promise you it won't be pleasant."

Bagis spoke to reporters while he was in Washington to attend a meeting of the Carnegie Endowment.

Turkish President Abdullah Gul said, in a statement on his Web site, that the resolution was "unacceptable" and "doesn't fit a major power like the United States."

In a letter to Bush, Gul warned that "in the case that Armenian allegations are accepted, there will be serious problems in the relations between the two countries."

"We still hope that common sense will prevail and that the House of Representatives will not move this resolution any further," a statement on the Turkish Foreign Ministry Web site said.

The vote was also strongly criticized by Turkish newspapers, the AP reported. "Bill of Hatred," said Hurriyet's front page, while Vatan's headline read "27 Foolish Americans."

Undersecretary of State Nick Burns said Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice would call the Turkish leadership Thursday to express "deep disappointment" with the vote.

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack issued a statement expressing "regret" for the committee's action, warning the resolution "may do grave harm to U.S.-Turkish relations and to U.S. interests in Europe and the Middle East."

The nonbinding House resolution says the deportation of nearly 2 million Armenians from the Ottoman Empire between 1915 and 1923, resulting in the deaths of 1.5 million of them, amounted to "genocide."

Turks strongly reject the genocide label, insisting there was no organized campaign against the Armenians and that many Turks also died in the chaos and violence of the period.

Ambassador Sensoy said the resolution's passage would be a "very injurious move to the psyche of the Turkish people."

He predicted a backlash in the country, saying there would be setbacks on several fronts: Turkish-American relations, Turkish-Armenian relations and the normalization of relations between the nations of Turkey and Armenia.

The resolution's sponsor, Rep. Adam Schiff, D-California, said the measure already had 226 co-sponsors, more than enough votes to pass "and the most support an Armenian genocide resolution has ever received."

A similar resolution passed the committee by a 40-7 vote two years ago, but it never reached the full House floor.

The resolution arrives at a particularly sensitive point in U.S.-Turkish relations. The United States has urged Turkey not to send its troops over the border into northern Iraq to fight Kurdish separatist rebels, who have launched some cross-border attacks against Turkish targets.

Observers of U.S.-Turkish relations have argued the House resolution could make Turkey less inclined to use restraint in dealing with its longstanding problems with the Kurdistan Workers Party.

CNN's Deirdre Walsh, Elise Labott and Joe Sterling contributed to this report.

Copyright 2007 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.


Michael Tee

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Re: Turkey recalls ambassador to US
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2007, 05:20:25 PM »
<<Turkey accepts there were mass killings in 1915-17 but denies genocide. >>

That's hilarious.  We're mass murderers, sure, but we're not genocidal mass murderers.

In Yiddish, we say Mashiggina velt (crazy world.)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Turkey recalls ambassador to US
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2007, 06:48:47 AM »
It is obvious that the Turks were guilty of trying to wipe out every Armenian that they could.

Their justification is that some Armenians sided with Russians who invaded Turkey.

Of course, they did this after genocide became unfashionable. It was only marginally acceptable by the date of the mini-massacre at Wounded Knee.

Genocide was not even a word in 1917, after all.

Sooner or later, they will have to admit this, even that Kemal Ataturk Pasha was in on some of the massacre.

Damn near everyone involved in these massacres are now deceased. There are only a very few Armenians in their 90's that remember this, and no Turkish soldiers at all.

It still was politically unwise for the US to have passed this resolution.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

_JS

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Re: Turkey recalls ambassador to US
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2007, 09:32:14 AM »
I like it.

Turkey pulled the same shit with France (actually it was much worse), but Chirac did not back down so easily. Why don't we make both Turkey and Japan own up to the terror they inflicted on Armenians and the Chinese & Koreans respectively?

Would we not all be appalled if Germany still denied the events of the Holocaust? Why do we so easily allow Turkey to deny what took place with the Armenians, for which there is ample proof (some of it in the U.S. State Department for Pete's sake!).

The Japanese still deny the Rape of Nanking and other brutalities in Korea and China that took place during their invasions. We're talking about a western country (in terms of political democracy) that has monitored textbooks and forced professors and government ministers to resign for referencing these massacres (or officially "exaggerating" them).

Interestingly, both nations have set up "research groups" to find the truth. Possibly similar to Iran's Holocaust research group or OJ's search for the real killers.
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Lanya

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Re: Turkey recalls ambassador to US
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2007, 11:47:33 AM »
If this in any way makes it harder to supply our troops, or if it cuts off their paths to leave Iraq, or if it shorts them of fuel---then this was a very bad move, IMO.
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Mr_Perceptive

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Re: Turkey recalls ambassador to US
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2007, 12:24:10 PM »
I like it.

Turkey pulled the same shit with France (actually it was much worse), but Chirac did not back down so easily. Why don't we make both Turkey and Japan own up to the terror they inflicted on Armenians and the Chinese & Koreans respectively?

Would we not all be appalled if Germany still denied the events of the Holocaust? Why do we so easily allow Turkey to deny what took place with the Armenians, for which there is ample proof (some of it in the U.S. State Department for Pete's sake!).

The Japanese still deny the Rape of Nanking and other brutalities in Korea and China that took place during their invasions. We're talking about a western country (in terms of political democracy) that has monitored textbooks and forced professors and government ministers to resign for referencing these massacres (or officially "exaggerating" them).

Interestingly, both nations have set up "research groups" to find the truth. Possibly similar to Iran's Holocaust research group or OJ's search for the real killers.

Henny has a point. Timing is certainly interesting here.

Regardless, genocide was attempted here, regardless whether it was 1 day ago or 1,000 years ago. Acknowledging it is the right thnig to do.

I have been to every base in Turkey and spent quite alot of time there. The Turks are some of the damn finest fighters in the world today. Totally brutal and ruthless, meaning effective. Almost impervious to pain. Admirable in many respects.

A conflict with the resilient Kurds will prove fun to watch, militarily speaking.

Mr_Perceptive

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Re: Turkey recalls ambassador to US
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2007, 12:26:22 PM »
If this in any way makes it harder to supply our troops, or if it cuts off their paths to leave Iraq, or if it shorts them of fuel---then this was a very bad move, IMO.

We have other, less direct, routes. Not as convenient but still effective. You simply cannot let other dictate your policies, regardless the pain you suffer.

_JS

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Re: Turkey recalls ambassador to US
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2007, 12:32:04 PM »
I agree that the timing is not only interesting, but really quite obvious. If I had to guess, I'd say that there is probably one or two Congressmen (or women) who really believe in this and the others are using it for their own ends.

Honestly, that should surprise no one. In my experience there are many types of politicians. Of those, very, very few out of any party are truly genuine, honest, and have the cares of their constituents and the people in their hearts. Very few.

On the other hand, just looking at the issue in and of itself, I still agree completely. Turkey has to own their history and hiding behind their friendship with us is no excuse.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

BT

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Re: Turkey recalls ambassador to US
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2007, 12:34:06 PM »
Quote
You simply cannot let other dictate your policies, regardless the pain you suffer.

This isn't others dictating policy. This is the democratic majority pushing through a non binding symbolic resolution with apparently no regard for consequences. One can suispect, but also wonder , what the heck they are thinking.


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Turkey recalls ambassador to US
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2007, 01:15:26 PM »
Why don't we make both Turkey and Japan own up to the terror they inflicted on Armenians and the Chinese & Koreans respectively?

====================================================================================
Well, to mention the best reason, today's Turks and Japanese had nothing to do with it. All the Turkish soldiers who had a hand in this are deceased.
Most of the Japanese soldiers at Nanking are also deceased.

I agree that it would be nice to make the ancestors of said Turks and Japanese to own up to the fact that their parents and grandparents and great grandparents (including even Ataturk himself)  were unwholesome and bruital when it comes to their treatment of the Armenians.

 Why are people all gung-ho about apoligizing to Armenians when no one will shake a fist over those who have persected Gypsies?
I suggest that this is because so many Armenians have made a killing in the US, while most Gypsies are still a bunch of freelance roaming fortunetellers, incompetent home repairmen and autobody workers, and no one likes or respects them.

It is hard to appreciate their degree of craftsmenship or their methods of salesmanship.

Armenians have money, lots of it, and everyone respects that, no matter how they got it.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."