Unconstitutional! Can we have our $1 Trillion back now?

[sirs]

It has to do with the egregious inefficency of who you want to place this "pool" with

You do realize the government does not have to be the entity that manages the single pay system, don't you?

You do realize that the Government will not let that happen, don't you?  Show me just 1 quote from a UHC advocate that is advocating someone other that the Government manage a Single Pay system?

Quote from: BT on Today at 06:54:44 PM
Quote
What "larger" Insurance companies, with their bigger pools are demonstrating a decline in their premiums?

I don't know of any

Well, there ya go

hmm you seem to have left off the rest of my statement

I left off the incidental reference and focused on the answer to my question

let me post it so that those interested in honest debate can read it:

I don't know of any but i do know per CU's example that some insurance companies are offering more flexible plans at a reduced cost.  

Now you'd have to actually demonstrate that those "some" companies' reduced cost plans were directly related to your theoretical bigger pool.  That is what you're trying to push with your pool obsession

[BT]

Now you'd have to actually demonstrate that those "some" companies' reduced cost plans were directly related to your theoretical bigger pool. 

My guess is that they offered those flexible plans in order to grow their market share and thus enlarge their pool.

Not sure why you think growing market share is a bad thing or why you want to label it an obsession of mine. Perhaps you don't do a lot of work with private sector insurance companies.

[sirs]

Now you'd have to actually demonstrate that those "some" companies' reduced cost plans were directly related to your theoretical bigger pool.  

My guess is that they offered those flexible plans in order to grow their market share and thus enlarge their pool.

Interesting guess, so in other words, it wasn't the larger pool that helped to reduce costs

Not sure why you think growing market share is a bad thing or why you want to label it an obsession of mine.

Never said it was a bad thing, and you're the one that keeps bring it up as something relevent.  That's your obsession.  Mine is the issue of the Government running said pool, and the mandates they bring with it

Perhaps you don't do a lot of work with private sector insurance companies.

Sure wouldn't be the 1st time you were wrong with a conclusion about me

[BT]

Interesting guess, so in other words, it wasn't the larger pool that helped to reduce costs

The lower costs were associated with the higher deductible. The higher deductible theoretically added an increased customer base and thus enlarged the pool. Business 101

Never said it was a bad thing, and you're the one that keeps bring it up as something relevent.  That's your obsession.  Mine is the issue of the Government running said pool, and the mandates they bring with it

And yet your example was of government inefficiencies and a single payer system does not have to be administered by the government.

Sure wouldn't be the 1st time you were wrong with a conclusion about me

Perhaps you can share a comparison of govt vs private sector intake procedures.

[Christians4LessGvt]

Is the whole foods approach something you would offer to your employees?

It is something that we would definitely listen to very intently.
I am a huge fan of medical savings accounts.
Because they bring an aspect of REALITY to the table.
What other part of life do you go in & get expensive services & never even ask how much something costs?
That is lunacy. Patients should be encouraged to be interested in pricing...and even shop around.
It sounds as though Whole Foods incorporates aspects of medical savings accounts into their coverages.
BT we have looked at these kinds of options, but not that seriously yet.
Believe it or not our Blue Cross premiums have remained pretty steady the last 2 years.
Insurance people tell us (before ObamaCare) that medical savings accounts are the wave of the future.
But we didn't want to be the guinea pig so to speak.
I would like to head in that direction.

[Christians4LessGvt]

And yet your example was of government inefficiencies and a single payer system
does not have to be administered by the government.

BT can you name a single payer national healthcare that is not?
I mean are there examples of non-government administered around the world?
I honestly dont know?

[BT]

Medicare claims processing is outsourced.

[Plane]

You keep trying to make this about the state having some vested interest analogus to mandating car insurance.  I'm demonstrating how its not.  Not even close

Just to be clear.

You don't have a problem with the state mandating insurance if you are to register and operate a vehicle on public roads?

   The state mandate is only for operators of cars , would you want the state to mandate auto insurance for evereyone even if they were not using cars?

[Plane]

2 systems, both going broke, both imploding with the weight of the financial burden they've become, and both a mere fraction of what Obamacare will undoubtedly bring

Their fiscal condition is irrevelant to whether govt has an interest in the nations health as it does in their interest in making sure its citizens have the financial means to compensate for accidents if they are found liable.

The fiscal condition of Medicare is a good experimental result , whether the Government has an intrest or not we havent ansered the question of whether the Goverbnment is competant for the task.

[BT]

I agree that the govt hasn't done a good job managing medicare. It is underfunded. But the government is not the entity perpetuating the massive fraud that is a major part of the problem. That would be the private sector.

[Plane]

I agree that the govt hasn't done a good job managing medicare. It is underfunded. But the government is not the entity perpetuating the massive fraud that is a major part of the problem. That would be the private sector.

  Fraud will not be a problem in the same sort of way in a larger system?

[BT]

Fraud will not be a problem in the same sort of way in a larger system?

I'm sure fraud would exist in a larger system. Fraud exists in the military industrial complex too. Human nature being what it is.

[Xavier_Onassis]

The veterans administration and medicare are managed with less fraud than other government entities. There is some degree of fraud in almost any venture, private or public

[sirs]

Interesting guess, so in other words, it wasn't the larger pool that helped to reduce costs

The lower costs were associated with the higher deductible. The higher deductible theoretically added an increased customer base and thus enlarged the pool. Business 101

"theory aside", your a did not beget b, which was your original claim.  it was merely a happenstance

Never said it was a bad thing, and you're the one that keeps bring it up as something relevent.  That's your obsession.  Mine is the issue of the Government running said pool, and the mandates they bring with it

And yet your example was of government inefficiencies and a single payer system does not have to be administered by the government.

And you have yet to provide an example of a single payer healthcare system NOT being run by Government, nor any politician advocating an entity outside of Government in managing a single payer healthcare system

Sure wouldn't be the 1st time you were wrong with a conclusion about me

Perhaps you can share a comparison of govt vs private sector intake procedures.

Apparently I needed to clarify that I'm not an insurance adjuster or work for an insurance company.  Your original erroneous implication was simply in reference to my "work" with private insurance companies, which I do, frequently, as a Physical Therapist.  If you want detailed minutia, privy to the knowledge base of those either in the insurance business or have time to google, by all means, google away

[sirs]

But really the challenge isn't to shoot down ideas. The challenge is to come up with a solution to a properly defined problem that everyone can live with.

1st and foremost, axe any notion of a Government run healthcare program and Government mandates that everyone must have health insurance

Now, where can we go from there?  Serious, I'm game to start considering other proposals, to actively function in pushing something we can all live with

Was there no ideas to start bouncing with?