Author Topic: Juan Cole can't understand. . .  (Read 4658 times)

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Michael Tee

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Re: Juan Cole can't understand. . .
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2010, 09:16:24 PM »
<<America isn't a democracy. It's Republic. I'll understand if you, being Canadian, don't understand the difference.>>

No, of course not.  A dumb Canuck like me wouldn't understand.  Such words are not used in playing hockey or chopping wood.

Why don't you explain it for me?

What is a Republic exactly?  What is a democracy?  And where is it written that a Republic cannot be a democracy?

Rich

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Re: Juan Cole can't understand. . .
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2010, 10:52:54 PM »
Ask your boyfriend.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Juan Cole can't understand. . .
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2010, 10:59:12 PM »
The statement "The USA is a Republic, not a democracy" is typical of the John Birch Society and the ultra rightwing. What they mean by this is that no one has a right to tax them for anything they do not like, like flouride in the municipal water supply or equal rights for colored people, both clearly a Communist plots.

Rich was in a wealthy neighborhood and some Fascist must have sneezed on him. This is a contagious belief, easily contracted by the gullible.

Republic means that the leader is not a monarch, like Elizabeth II.
Democracy means that the people choose the government.

In actuality, the US is a pluralistic representative democracy, at least ideally. But money is allowed the freedom of speech, so it is often more of an oligarchy.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Kramer

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Re: Juan Cole can't understand. . .
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2010, 12:02:59 AM »
who the hell is Juan Cole and why should I care what he thinks?

Michael Tee

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Re: Juan Cole can't understand. . .
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2010, 01:04:06 AM »
<<who the hell is Juan Cole and why should I care what he thinks?>>

from the Wikipedia article, Juan Cole:

<<John Ricardo I. "Juan" Cole (born October 1952) is an American scholar, public intellectual, and historian of the modern Middle East and South Asia.[1][2][3] He is Richard P. Mitchell Collegiate Professor of History at the University of Michigan. As a commentator on Middle Eastern affairs, he has appeared in print and on television, and testified before the United States Senate. He has published several peer-reviewed books on the modern Middle East and is a translator of both Arabic and Persian. Since 2002, he has written a weblog, Informed Comment.  >>

Although he doesn't usually comment on domestic American politics unless it's in the context of some Middle East issue, this one comment seemed interesting to me, and I thought it would be interesting to the group.

It seemed strange to Juan Cole - - and it certainly seems strange to me - - that the Senator from Mass can be determined by a voting margin of only 52% but that when the health care of all America comes  up for a Senate vote, its proponents need to assemble a 60% majority to be sure of its passage.  That was an interesting idea, didn't matter to me who it came from, but I attributed the source in order to avoid looking like I was claiming the credit for it.

Anyway, I wasn't telling anyone they should care what Juan Cole thinks - - just throwing out an idea I saw that happened to come from him.  Woulda been just as interesting, IMHO, if it had come from Bugs Bunny.  Doesn't really matter who the idea came from, if it's interesting to think about.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 01:06:44 AM by Michael Tee »

Michael Tee

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Re: Juan Cole can't understand. . .
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2010, 01:08:24 AM »
<<Ask your boyfriend.>>

Just as I thought, you just parrot right-wing catch phrases automatically without having the faintest idea WTF they actually mean. 

well, no surprises there.

Plane

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Re: Juan Cole can't understand. . .
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2010, 05:43:26 AM »

<<So, if the majority voted to reinstate slavery by a simple 51%, you'd be good with that?>>

Nope.  Not even by a 100% majority.  Clearcut violation of constitutional human rights.  Certain basic rights are immune to majority rule.


So is the Constitution "dead" on that point? Or is it a "liveing" document adaptable to the moods of the day?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Juan Cole can't understand. . .
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2010, 12:40:21 PM »
Just as I thought, you just parrot right-wing catch phrases automatically without having the faintest idea WTF they actually mean.

well, no surprises there.
======================================
You can say that again.

But I just did so you would not have to.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

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Re: Juan Cole can't understand. . .
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2010, 04:05:03 PM »
<<So is the Constitution "dead" on that point? Or is it a "liveing" document adaptable to the moods of the day?>>

Why ask me, what would I know?    Is the "mood of the day" in the State of Georgia a pro-slavery one?  In that case, why don't you enslave somebody and challenge the constitutionality of the 14th in Court?   Then you could get a more authoritative view on how adaptable the 14th Amendment is to the moods of the day.

Amianthus

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Re: Juan Cole can't understand. . .
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2010, 04:16:01 PM »
In that case, why don't you enslave somebody and challenge the constitutionality of the 14th in Court?   Then you could get a more authoritative view on how adaptable the 14th Amendment is to the moods of the day.

What has slavery got to do with the definition of citizenship?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Plane

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Re: Juan Cole can't understand. . .
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2010, 04:54:08 PM »
<<So is the Constitution "dead" on that point? Or is it a "liveing" document adaptable to the moods of the day?>>

Why ask me, what would I know?    Is the "mood of the day" in the State of Georgia a pro-slavery one?  In that case, why don't you enslave somebody and challenge the constitutionality of the 14th in Court?   Then you could get a more authoritative view on how adaptable the 14th Amendment is to the moods of the day.


You cant sue to prove the constitution unconstitional.

Michael Tee

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Re: Juan Cole can't understand. . .
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2010, 06:15:17 PM »
<<What has slavery got to do with the definition of citizenship?>>

You were the one who introduced slavery into this thread:


<<So, if the majority voted to reinstate slavery by a simple 51%, you'd be good with that?>>


So maybe you can tell me what it has to do with the definition of citizenship.

Michael Tee

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Re: Juan Cole can't understand. . .
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2010, 06:21:20 PM »
Here's what you asked me, plane:

<<So is the Constitution "dead" on that point? ["That point" being the legality of slavery]  Or is it a "liveing" document adaptable to the moods of the day?>>

And I suggested that you try to find out by enslaving someone and fighting the legality of  it out in court.

<<You cant sue to prove the constitution unconstitional.>>

I didn't say you should sue, but somebody else would sue to protest the enslavement on the part of your newly enslaved, at which point you could bring any challenge you liked to the 14th Amendment and find out from the court itself how adaptable it (the amendment) was to the moods of the day.

Amianthus

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Re: Juan Cole can't understand. . .
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2010, 06:44:27 PM »
So maybe you can tell me what it has to do with the definition of citizenship.

You're the one who introduced the 14th Amendment, which defines citizenship.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: Juan Cole can't understand. . .
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2010, 06:54:55 PM »
<<You're the one who introduced the 14th Amendment, which defines citizenship.>>

No, I don't think so.  As far as I can see, it was your post (Reply #11) which first mentioned either slavery or the 14th in this thread.