Author Topic: Obama vs Hil?  (Read 3173 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Obama vs Hil?
« on: January 19, 2007, 03:01:07 AM »
The Democratic Field
It's Hillary versus everybody else.

Thursday, January 18, 2007


Illinois Senator Barack Obama's announcement this week that he's likely to enter the Presidential race adds a dash of glamour and excitement to the Democratic field. But all of his media attention doesn't change the basic truth of the 2008 primary contest: The race is between Hillary Rodham Clinton and everybody else.

New York's junior Senator hasn't announced yet, but her troops have long been massing, ready to march on her orders. And what a political machine it is, starting with her husband, who has made it clear he is aching for her to run. Psychoanalyzing the Clintons is perilous, but we suspect the former President doesn't like the way his years in office ended, with impeachment, the Marc Rich pardon and Al Gore's failure to deliver a third symbolic term. A victory for his wife would be a kind of political redemption for him too.

Mrs. Clinton brings her own considerable strengths, not least intelligence and self-discipline. She has performed far more smoothly in the Senate than many observers expected, and she hasn't been a polarizing figure in New York (winning 67% of the vote in November).

Then there are those Clinton legions--of fund-raisers, union chiefs, party bosses, think tank operatives, media consultants. Mrs. Clinton blew through more than $30 million during her all but uncontested Senate re-election campaign, and she will have little trouble raising another $100 million or more. Longtime aide Harold Ickes--famous for his silent depositions in Clinton II--is the seasoned hand on money matters and he'll also bring on Big Labor. Meanwhile, former White House chief of staff John Podesta has set up the Center for American Progress, from which she can poach left-leaning policy ideas.

From her national perch on the Armed Services Committee, Mrs. Clinton has so far also walked a remarkable tightrope on the Iraq war, only recently coming out for some sort of "cap" on the number of troops. A major story over the coming year will be whether she can resist the defeatist tug of her party's antiwar left as she tries to win the Democratic nomination.

Which brings up her biggest liability--the fear in many Democratic hearts that she's not "electable." Mrs. Clinton carries much of the scandal baggage of her husband's tenure without much of his political charisma. If one potential Democratic theme is to run against the "divisive" Bush Republicans, Hillary is not your ideal "uniter." Perhaps American voters won't want to hear about Arkansas, et cetera, all over again, but then is that a risk Democrats want to take?

This is where Mr. Obama comes in, bidding to be the un-Hillary. At age 45, he's already managed the remarkable feat of writing his own autobiography, literally and politically. He's applauded for saying he's proud that he did inhale, and he has the virtue of being a genuinely fresh face. But campaigns have a way of filling in a candidate's resumes in ways other than they design, including their positions on actual issues. Mr. Obama is already moving left on national security--which is dangerous ground for a political rookie amid what the Pentagon calls "the long war" on terror.

North Carolina's John Edwards is another vigorous contender, though the erstwhile Vice Presidential candidate failed to deliver his home state to John Kerry last time around. This time he's raising the decibels on his "two Americas" campaign theme, hoping to catch some of that Hubert Humphrey political magic. If he can sell this message as a millionaire trial lawyer, he'll have earned the nomination.

The rest of the Democratic field includes two governors--Iowa's Tom Vilsack and New Mexico's Bill Richardson--who have solid state records, and Mr. Richardson also has foreign-policy credentials. But both will have trouble breaking through the fund-raising barriers erected by the campaign-finance limits they themselves have supported. This is a shame, because both men have something to offer. And then there is the usual gaggle of Senators--Dodd, Biden and even Kerry--who are running because . . . well, because that seems to be what their DNA has programmed them to do.

If we were betting on a wild card challenger, we'd look instead to Al Gore. The former Vice President has been coy about his intentions. But he might be getting a ton of free publicity for his global warming "documentary" come Oscar time, and there's little doubt he could raise money if he got in. Unlike Mrs. Clinton, there are a lot of Democrats who feel passionately about him and his near-win in 2000.

There are cycles in politics, and, after eight years of Republicans in the White House, Democrats in 2008 will have the public's normal desire for change on their side. On the other hand, they will also have to show they can be trusted on national security in a post 9/11 world, especially running against the likes of Republicans John McCain or Rudy Giuliani. Mrs. Clinton's studied middle-ground on security suggests she understands that. The main Democratic drama of the coming months will be whether her party really trusts that she and her husband have learned enough not to repeat the mistakes of the 1990s.


Article


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Brassmask

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2600
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama vs Hil?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2007, 02:17:35 PM »
That's an interesting article.

As you may or may not have heard (and possibly ignored), I've settled on Gore as my candidate barring a) his not running at all and b) someone better coming along.

As usual, your cartoon has proven offensive and ignorant in its limited intelligence and childish mindset.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Obama vs Hil?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2007, 02:19:30 PM »
You certainly know offensive and ignorant cartoons, being a big fan of Rall and all.

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama vs Hil?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2007, 02:22:06 PM »
As usual, your cartoon has proven offensive and ignorant in its limited intelligence and childish mindset.

Or is it that you just don't understand the nuance?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Brassmask

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2600
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama vs Hil?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2007, 02:34:55 PM »
You certainly know offensive and ignorant cartoons, being a big fan of Rall and all.

Touche'.

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama vs Hil?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2007, 02:42:14 PM »
Rall is LOTS funnier than this cartoon.

Obama has only two years experience in the Senate. I am thinking a Clinton/Obama ticket might be a possibility. If Clinton got a larger portion of the Women's vote and most of the Black vote (and perhaps the recent immigrant-citizen vote) he could make it. But he's young, and somewhat inexperienced, though surely not as boneheaded about foreign affairs as Juniorbush, who is right up there with Fillmore, Harding and Polk as a foreign affars genius.

 

I still like Kucinich, and favor Gore over Hillary, but I will decide at the time of the primary.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Brassmask

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2600
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama vs Hil?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2007, 02:42:51 PM »
As usual, your cartoon has proven offensive and ignorant in its limited intelligence and childish mindset.

Or is it that you just don't understand the nuance?

Oh, I fullwell do understand nuance.  This cartoon has none.  It is standing on the fallacy that a democrat can't decide on who to support for fear it might offend one group or another.  While that is true of some democrats, it is not true of all  democrats therefore the cartoon is ludicrous in its use of the donkey representing all dems and then stating the democratic kneejerk reaction is a conflict in thought on whether to support a candidate from one or the other of a minority group.  (Although, women are not a minority since 51% of Americans are women.)

So, I stand by my assertions regarding the cartoon.

Brassmask

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2600
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama vs Hil?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2007, 02:48:18 PM »
Rall is LOTS funnier than this cartoon.

Obama has only two years experience in the Senate. I am thinking a Clinton/Obama ticket might be a possibility. If Clinton got a larger portion of the Women's vote and most of the Black vote (and perhaps the recent immigrant-citizen vote) he could make it. But he's young, and somewhat inexperienced, though surely not as boneheaded about foreign affairs as Juniorbush, who is right up there with Fillmore, Harding and Polk as a foreign affars genius.

 

I still like Kucinich, and favor Gore over Hillary, but I will decide at the time of the primary.



I agree.  A Clinton/Obama ticket could be in the offing.

My wife and I were talking about it and I theorized that Obama could be getting in simply to tear down Hillary in a long primary so that they are both beaten out by a tan, ready and rested Gore later in the year.

Kos noted that the Iowa caucuses are now less than a year away since they are on the 14th of January, 08.

XO, I agree that a President Kucinich would give us everything we want, but even I know that's not feasible barring some (other) kind of drug being added to the water supply in America.  LOL

I'm holding out for GORE.  (In that same conversation with my wife, I told her that I would be running wild eyed through the streets of our neighborhood if it were to come about that Gore won the nomination and then chose Howard Dean as his running mate.  LOL.  AAAAAHGGGHH, GORE/DEAN!  GORE/DEAN!!)


Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama vs Hil?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2007, 02:56:08 PM »
Oh, I fullwell do understand nuance.  This cartoon has none.

Sure it does. If you can insist I don't understand nuance when I dislike a cartoon a liberal posts, then I can insist the same for you and yours.

And it's just as valid an argument no matter which side brings it up.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama vs Hil?
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2007, 03:00:12 PM »
I wish that Kucinich were a foot taller, had a deeper voice, were married to some Jackie Kennedy type and were not named Kucinich. Or Dennis. But he is in every way smart, gutsy and competent. Plus he agrees with me on damned near everything.

Too many "menace" jokes.

Think of all the people with unelectable names: Outlaw, Lipshitz, Szgolcz, Palestrini, Pusey, Nippler, Rape, Hollowpeter, Trafficante, Lipshitz...

I wonder if anyone named Xavier Onassis could be elected president. I like to think of it as an ideal slogan at least. If we do not save our own asses, indeed who will?

Lord knows, someone needs to save them.

The cartoon assumes that the average Democrat only votes without regard to worth or ability for candidates based on race and sex. This does not seem to be a valid assumption to me. It's sort of like a toon portraying an elephant with the heebie jeebies trying to choose between Big Oil or some creationist. It's not just funny. It is more stupid than ironic. I suppose that this is a matter of taste for some, but I fiund Ralls to be a real hoot, as is Xoverboard (August J. Pollack,a.k.a. Some guy with a Website.

I also like Tom Tomorrow and Keith Knight, Carol Lay and Peter Bagge.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 03:11:42 PM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Brassmask

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2600
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama vs Hil?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2007, 04:51:22 PM »
I love Peter Bagge.

He should sue that Zach Braff for stealing Hate magazine.

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama vs Hil?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2007, 01:09:28 AM »
He should sue that Zach Braff for stealing Hate magazine.

=========================================
I have never heard anything about this. All the issues of Hate I have seen have been Bagge's.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Brassmask

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2600
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama vs Hil?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2007, 04:49:15 PM »

I have never heard anything about this. All the issues of Hate I have seen have been Bagge's.


I have this idea that Zach Braff was reading Hate all the time and that sort of influenced his writing GARDEN STATE.  They're very similar, imo.

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama vs Hil?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2007, 11:52:27 PM »
I have this idea that Zach Braff was reading Hate all the time and that sort of influenced his writing GARDEN STATE.  They're very similar, imo.

Sure, they have the same opinion that the NJ suburbs suck and the whole place is riddled with corruption, but then, who doesn't?

I recall a New Yorker cartoon which has a sullen Donna Karen looking across at the NYC skyline, wearing a t shirt labeled "DKNJ".

I don't see where the Buddy Bradley story in Hate! and 'Garden State' are similar enough to call it a case of plagiarism.

 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."