DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: richpo64 on December 11, 2008, 02:09:38 PM
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Covering (Up) Obama
Paul Edwards
Thursday, December 11, 2008
http://townhall.com/columnists/PaulEdwards/2008/12/11/covering_up_obama (http://townhall.com/columnists/PaulEdwards/2008/12/11/covering_up_obama)
The mainstream media’s covering for Barack Obama on his relationship with Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich is predictable, laughable and tragic. The only reporter really doing any kind of investigative journalism on the connection between Obama and Blagojevich is ABC’s Jake Tapper.
On the Wednesday, December 10 edition of MSNBCs Morning Joe, host Joe Scarborough attempted to make the connection but was roundly silenced by his own panel—liberals all— including his co-host Mika Brzezinski and panelists Harold Ford, Jr. and Mike Barnicle.
Ford and Barnicle characterized the relationship between Obama and Blagojevich as “a typical political relationship”—the pols smile with arms around each other in front of the cameras, but when the cameras are off they really have no relationship at all. Amazingly, this defense has worked for Barack Obama with all of his questionable relationships, including Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko and William Ayers. Now add the corrupt governor of Illinois to the list.
The facts bear out that Obama’s relationship with the corrupt governor of Illinois goes beyond merely smiling for the cameras. Jake Tapper notes that Obama endorsed Blagojevich in 2002 and 2006, serving as a “top adviser.” Obama is also referred to as one of “the top strategists of Blagojevich’s 2002 gubernatorial victory.” Tapper quotes President-elect Obama’s chief of staff Rahm Emmanuel:
[President-elect Obama and myself] participated in a small group that met weekly when Rod was running for governor. We basically laid out the general election, Barack and I and these two [an aide to Blagojevich and Blagojevich’s campaign co-chair].
In August of 2006, Barack Obama told a crowd at an Illinois State Fair: “We’ve got a governor in Rod Blagojevich who has delivered consistently on behalf of the people of Illinois.”
In spite of the clear evidence for the political connection between Obama and Blagojevich, the media would have us believe that Barack Obama is above it all. How is this possible? Barack Obama cut his political teeth while immersed in the corrupt political underworld that is Chicago politics—and yet the media really expects us to believe he was “in it but not of it”?
Beyond that, the media expects us to believe that Obama never expressed interest in who would fill his now-vacant U.S. Senate seat in Illinois. Asked during a press conference (held in Obama’s Chicago transition office!) if he had any contact with the Illinois governor’s office about his replacement in the Senate, Obama replied: “I had no contact with the governor or his office, and so we were not, I was not aware of what was happening.”
But that doesn’t quite square with what his senior adviser David Alexrod told a local Chicago news affiliate on November 22: “I know he’s [Barack Obama] talked to the governor and there are a whole range of names many of which have surfaced, and I think he has a fondness for a lot of them.”
Alexrod in a press release on Tuesday, December 9 retracted his previous statement, saying he was “mistaken”: “I was mistaken when I told an interviewer last month that the President-elect has spoken directly to Governor Blagojevich about the Senate vacancy. They did not then or at any time discuss the subject.”
You would think such a blatant contradiction would warrant some tough questions from the media, who should not be satisfied with a simple, “I was mistaken.” Not so.
NBC’s chief political correspondent Chuck Todd defends Axelrod by saying it’s the job of these political spokespersons to make it look as if their boss is “on top of the situation.” From MSNBC’s Morning Joe: “Could an adviser around Obama want to always make it look like Obama was on top of the situation and may have over spoke in that way?”
Can you imagine White House Press Secretary Dana Perino making such a retraction relative to a corrupt political connection to President Bush and the mainstream media simply accepting it and writing it off as “her job”?
MSNBC’s Chris Matthews is on record as stating that it’s his job to make sure Obama succeeds. Obviously he speaks for all of the mainstream media who clearly have no intent of examining Barack Obama’s corrupt political connections. They refused to do it during the campaign. Why should we expect any less from them now?
Copyright © 2008 Salem Web Network. All Rights Reserved.
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Heck with covering up Obama, next time anyone gets a chance, catch how many times you hear a story about Gov Sonofabich simply referred to as a Democrat, or the Democrat Governor of Illinois.
Doubt you'll need more than 1 hand, if not only 1-2 fingers
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Heck with covering up Obama, next time anyone gets a chance, catch how many times you hear a story about Gov Sonofabich simply referred to as a Democrat, or the Democrat Governor of Illinois.
Doubt you'll need more than 1 hand, if not only 1-2 fingers
You are soooo easy! :
Illinois governor ignores Obama's call to resign - Yahoo! News
Dec 10, 2008 ... His career in shreds, Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich clung defiantly ... a leader in the Illinois Senate and, like the governor, a Democrat. ...
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081210/ap_on_re_us/illinois_governor - 85k - Cached - Similar pages -
Ill. governor arrested in corruption scandal - Yahoo! News
Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich was arrested Tuesday on charges he brazenly ... The 51-year-old Democrat was also accused of engaging in pay-to-play politics ...
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081209/ap_on_re_us/blagojevich_corruption_probe - 81k - Cached - Similar pages -
More results from news.yahoo.com »
Rod Blagojevich, Illinois governor -- chicagotribune.com
Dec 11, 2008 ... Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich arrested on federal charges ... Blagojevich provide a sharp contrast to a Democratic governor who campaigned ...
www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-rod-blagojevich-1209,0,7997804 (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-rod-blagojevich-1209,0,7997804). story - 247k - Cached - Similar pages -
Blagojevich arrested on federal charges - Chicago Breaking News
The Democratic governor has said he expects to make a decision on the state's next senator in ..... What has Rod done to the Illinois public school system? ...
www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2008/12/source-feds-take-gov-blagojevich- (http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2008/12/source-feds-take-gov-blagojevich-) into-custody.html - Similar pages -
Feds: Governor tried to sell Obama's seat - Politics- msnbc.com
Dec 9, 2008 ... Police officers stand guard outside Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich's Chicago home on Tuesday after the Democratic politician was arrested by ...
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28139155/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28139155/) - Similar pages -
Blagojevich free on $4500 bail after arrest - CNN.com
Rod Blagojevich is serving his second term as governor of Illinois. The Democratic governor, who appeared in court in a blue jogging suit, ...
www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/09/illinois.governor/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/09/illinois.governor/index.html) - 103k - Cached - Similar pages -
Wordless Wednesday: Democratic Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich ...
Wordless Wednesday: Democratic Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich Attempts to Sell Senate Seat.
usconservatives.about.com/b/.../wordless-wednesday-democratic-illinois-gov- rod-blagojevich-attempts-to-sell-senate-seat.htm - 23k - Cached - Similar pages -
Conservative Politics Examiner: Democratic Governor Rod ...
Illinois" Democrat Governor Rod Blagojevich and his chief of staff were arrested at their homes this morning by the FBI on charges of fraud, conspiracy and ...
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RAW DATA: Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich - FOXNews.com Transition ...
Dec 9, 2008 ... Rod Blagojevich was elected governor of Illinois in 2002, the first Democrat elected to the office since 1972. He grew up in Chicago, ...
www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/12/09/raw-data-illinois-gov-rod-blagojevich (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/12/09/raw-data-illinois-gov-rod-blagojevich) / - 54k - Cached - Similar pages -
Any more paranoid silliness I can disprove so easily?
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Not only that, the Liberal Media is not really telling all the players. Apparently, they left DailyKos out of the "cover for Obama" loop.
Note the Chris Matthews reference at the end there.
Guilt By Imagination
by BarbinMD
Thu Dec 11, 2008 at 10:35:05 AM PST
It was clear from the start:
...ROD BLAGOJEVICH said he knows that the President-elect wants Senate Candidate 1 for the open seat but "they're not willing to give me anything except appreciation. Fuck them."
...that President-elect Obama wasn't playing ball with the corrupt governor of Illinois, but that hasn't stopped various media hacks from trying to turn the Rod Blagojevich scandal into Obamagate.
For example, from Politico, we get:
At first blush, Barack Obama comes out of the Rod Blagojevich scandal smelling like a rose. The prosecutor at a news conference seemed to give the president-elect a seal of approval, and the Illinois governor himself was caught on tape complaining that Obama was not interested in crooked schemes.
But make no mistake: For Obama and his team, the Blagojevich scandal is a stink bomb tossed at close range.
And Politico's reason for thinking that? Easy. Because Republicans will express pseudo-outrage, draw false connections, and Politico will report it.
And then there's this from Liz "Sprinkles" Sidoti of the Associated Press:
President-elect Barack Obama hasn't even stepped into office and already a scandal — not of his own making — is threatening to dog him.
Obama isn't accused of anything. But the fact that Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich, a fellow Democrat, has been charged with trying to sell Obama's now-vacant Senate post gives political opponents an opening to criticize him. A slew of questions remain. The investigation is still under way. And the ultimate impact on Obama is far from certain.
While a bit more dramatic than the Politico opening, the message is the same: Yeah, sure, I know Obama isn't involved, but as long as I can find a Republican to talk about it, I've got a story.
The Washington Times went the inflammatory headline route:
Scandal casts cloud over Obama presidency
...while Chris Matthews opted for the incoherent:
But Fitzgerald made clear that Obama was not implicated today. Here he is, quote, "The complaint makes no allegations about the president-elect whatsoever." Obama said this afternoon that he had no contact with Governor Blagojevich over who was gonna fill that Senate seat.
Still, there are many unanswered questions, including that one.
The unifying theme throughout this coverage is, when you have a corrupt politician, caught on tape peddling influence and cursing like a sailor, guilt by imaginary association trumps boring issues like the economy and health care any day of the week.
http://www.dailykos.com/ (http://www.dailykos.com/)
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Brass
You know the game. Shoot for Bush and hit Libby. Either way the pristine is muddied.
Obama may be clean in this instance but what about Rahm Emanuel or David Axelrod or any of the other Chicago inside players who are attached to the president-elect at the hip.
And don't forget Rezko. He is the tie that binds.
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http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/bad_americans/missing_pages_o.php (http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/bad_americans/missing_pages_o.php)
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And not so surprisingly, both Knute & Brass miss the mark, when it was LISTENING/HEARING to any stories (i.e. MSM news sources one watches and HEARS, such as CNN, MSNBC, Any of the evening news programs by the big 3.....etc., etc., etc.), that I was referring to.
Yea, that was easy
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i still say Hillary may end up the president
obama may have to resign when BlagOBribe squeals like a pig
"foot in mouth disease" takes over and appoints hillary his VP
after a few months...plagiarism joe would have a "convenient" stroke/heart palpitation
and boom Hillary would be in and fully approved by the leftist oligarchy
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I don't really want Obama to be incompetant or corrupt.
I so severely don't want this that I will have to see some real evidence of connection before I will think it true.
I don't know what it was that drew BHO to Chicago , or how he thrived so well there , but he certainoy could not be involved in Chicago politics long without meeting some dirt.
I shall take it for granted that graft happened in Chicago, but not for granted that Obama was involved.Otherwise the people of the whole region will have to be disqualified from being president untill they have all been clean of corruption for a generation.
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And not so surprisingly, both Knute & Brass miss the mark, when it was LISTENING/HEARING to any stories (i.e. MSM news sources one watches and HEARS, such as CNN, MSNBC, Any of the evening news programs by the big 3.....etc., etc., etc.), that I was referring to.
Yea, that was easy
Your are so full of shit and spreading in it deeper all the time. Too bad no one believes anything you RW nuts say anymore after you fucked everything up with your incessant lies and weaseling .
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Brass
You know the game. Shoot for Bush and hit Libby. Either way the pristine is muddied.
Obama may be clean in this instance but what about Rahm Emanuel or David Axelrod or any of the other Chicago inside players who are attached to the president-elect at the hip.
And don't forget Rezko. He is the tie that binds.
You know, I can't wait till Fitz's tapes are online and we can all listen to how Rahm and Axelrod (never either my favorite folks in politics) totally shoot down Blago's demands.
If it turns out one of them DID say they'd go along, then I'll be surprised and condemn them along with everyone else, but, seriously, all of this has nothing to do with Barack Obama.
Of course, you guys who love all things GOP may think it will be oh so funny to see a cloud of Obama's administration but we're really facing some heavy shit here and I, for one, hope this all blows over VERY soon.
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And not so surprisingly, both Knute & Brass miss the mark, when it was LISTENING/HEARING to any stories (i.e. MSM news sources one watches and HEARS, such as CNN, MSNBC, Any of the evening news programs by the big 3.....etc., etc., etc.), that I was referring to.
Yea, that was easy
Uh, you are aware, aren't you, that Chris Matthews in ON MSNBC, right?
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If there is any way the GOP can pin anything on Obama, they will. When they could not touch Carter, they went after Burt Lance. The ones who run the party are obstructionists and do not want change other than the continuing shrinkage of the middle class to the benefit of the super rich.
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Of course, you guys who love all things GOP may think it will be oh so funny to see a cloud of Obama's administration but we're really facing some heavy shit here and I, for one, hope this all blows over VERY soon.
Yes quite!
It is a world full of preditors , and we don't need to look as if we are already wounded.
I know it is a fact that we will rally round the flag after an attack and even the least leadership will be effective with our people united.
But if we don't seem to be vunerable , we might just get attacked less , so I am not hopeing to inaugurate a wounded already presidency.
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I just hope it blows over.
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I just hope it blows over.
You can hope for better than that!
Lets hope that BHO is actually clean , and has a way to make that clear.
Harry Truman got this kind of accusation a lot , but he never seemed to do his old machine any real favors and he turned out to be such an effective leader that the issue of his defunct sponsors was eclipsed .
Much has been made of BHO haveing intelligence and charm, these are good tools , I hope he also has the vision and courage that complete the toolkit of the leader we need.
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And not so surprisingly, both Knute & Brass miss the mark, when it was LISTENING/HEARING to any stories (i.e. MSM news sources one watches and HEARS, such as CNN, MSNBC, Any of the evening news programs by the big 3.....etc., etc., etc.), that I was referring to.
Uh, you are aware, aren't you, that Chris Matthews in ON MSNBC, right?
Yea.....and? That takes up 1 finger, and likely was a slip of the tongue that 1 time
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"I can't wait till Fitz's tapes are online and we can all listen to how Rahm and Axelrod
(never either my favorite folks in politics) totally shoot down Blago's demands"
(http://www.10pinchicago.com/images/sun_times_logo.gif)
Obama chief of staff Rahm Emanuel ducks reporters' questions
December 11, 2008
BY FRAN SPIELMAN AND ABDON M. PALLASCH Staff Reporters
President-elect Barack Obama?s chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, refused to take questions from
reporters this morning about whether he was the Obama ?advisor? named in the criminal complaint
against Gov. Rod Blagojevich.
The complaint states Blagojevich wanted a promise of a high-level appointment or some other reward
for Blagojevich in exchange for Blagojevich naming Obama?s friend Valerie Jarrett to replace him in the U.S. Senate.
Emanuel was uncharacteristically absent from Obama?s news conference this morning. He was spotted
two hours later in the lobby of Chicago?s City Hall. He was there to listen to his two children performing
in a concert with their school, Anshe Emet.
A Sun-Times reporter pressed him to comment about whether he was the emissary named in the criminal complaint.
?You?re wasting your time,? Emanuel said. ?I?m not going to say a word to you. I?m going to do this with my children.
Dont do that. I?m a father. I have two kids. I?m not going to do it.?
Asked, ?Can?t you do both?? Emanuel replied, ?I?m not as capable as you. I?m going to be a father.
I?m allowed to be a father,? and he pushed the reporter?s digital recorder away.
Blagojevch was caught on tape saying that he wanted the Obama advisor in question to
know what Blagojevich wanted in exchange for the Jarrett appointment.
Blagojevich said, ?He asks me for the fifth CD thing, I want it to be in his head.? Emanuel
represents the 5th Congressional District in Illinois.
No one in the Obama campaign or administration has been charged with any wrongdoing.
Obama said this morning that none of his staff has had a hand in any dealmaking on his
Senate replacement.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1326788,rahm-emanuel-blagojevich-obama-121108.article (http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1326788,rahm-emanuel-blagojevich-obama-121108.article)
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And not so surprisingly, both Knute & Brass miss the mark, when it was LISTENING/HEARING to any stories (i.e. MSM news sources one watches and HEARS, such as CNN, MSNBC, Any of the evening news programs by the big 3.....etc., etc., etc.), that I was referring to.
Uh, you are aware, aren't you, that Chris Matthews in ON MSNBC, right?
Yea.....and? That takes up 1 finger, and likely was a slip of the tongue that 1 time
Example of how Sirs-World® works.
Sirs presents a point of view.
Someone else presents EVIDENCE THAT REFUTES SIRS' POINT OF VIEW.
Sirs only sees evidence that refutes sirs' point of view*.
* "evidence" is probably false and/or does not refute sirs' point of view.
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Of course, you guys who love all things GOP may think it will be oh so funny to see a cloud of Obama's administration but we're really facing some heavy shit here and I, for one, hope this all blows over VERY soon.
Actually I hope Obama's hands are clean.
But this is what bothers me.
He equivocates.
He doesn't even come clean on simple questions like has he stopped smoking. He probably would have picked up votes by just admitting he struggles with that demon daily and sometimes he does not win.
Then again he might lose the smoke nazi vote, but i don't know anyone who pays serious attention to them.
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>>He equivocates.<<
Bingo.
It seems reflexive. He says he never met with him, but he did. We know he did because there are pictures. There are phone records. His surrogates say he discussed his seat with him, then they deny it. The press leaves it at that.
Reminds me of somebody.
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Of course, you guys who love all things GOP may think it will be oh so funny to see a cloud of Obama's administration but we're really facing some heavy shit here and I, for one, hope this all blows over VERY soon.
Actually I hope Obama's hands are clean.
But this is what bothers me.
He equivocates.
He doesn't even come clean on simple questions like has he stopped smoking. He probably would have picked up votes by just admitting he struggles with that demon daily and sometimes he does not win.
Then again he might lose the smoke nazi vote, but i don't know anyone who pays serious attention to them.
it wouldn't matterbwhat he said y'all would criticize
If he said he didn't stop smoking He would be a weak suck liar
Better to equivocate than give yourself up to a crazed enemy
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it wouldn't matterbwhat he said y'all would criticize
If he said he didn't stop smoking He would be a weak suck liar
Better to equivocate than give yourself up to a crazed enemy
That explains a lot about your mindset.
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it wouldn't matterbwhat he said y'all would criticize
If he said he didn't stop smoking He would be a weak suck liar
Better to equivocate than give yourself up to a crazed enemy
That explains a lot about your mindset.
At least I have a mind to set rather than spout prejudice
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At least I have a mind to set rather than spout prejudice
But that is what you do. You assume that those mid to right are your enemies. You prejudge.
But what is more amazing is that you would rather be lied to than to be trusted to evaluate the ramifications of the truth, just as long as that same truth is withheld from the rest of this nation.
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At least I have a mind to set rather than spout prejudice
But that is what you do. You assume that those mid to right are your enemies. You prejudge.
But what is more amazing is that you would rather be lied to than to be trusted to evaluate the ramifications of the truth, just as long as that same truth is withheld from the rest of this nation.
Neat.
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From the link that Religious Dick posted:
Conclusion: Neither of the two brief stories from KHQA were important at the time they were filed. Both were just brief notices that what would normally be happening after Obama's win was happening. If you're going to be President, you have to resign the Senate and the Gov. gets to appoint your replacement. As President-elect you are going to want to have a say in that. And you will, to a point, get it.
This is what I'm curious about: whoever the Obama advisor is, you'd think he/she would have found a way to keep Obama away from Blagojevich. Given the guy's reputation, he's got to be like poison to everyone who's got any sense. And it makes me wonder if whoever tipped off the investigation that Blagojevich was really going nuts with his plans was someone who also could have warned Obama to stay away from him. If I remember correctly, the dates of some of the taped phone conversations coincide with the dates of the "disappeared" news articles, so the timing is interesting there.
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Given the guy's reputation, he's got to be like poison to everyone who's got any sense.
Then how does he run for Govenor and win?
Did a lot of people in the party kinow what kind of guy he was and the public didn't?
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And not so surprisingly, both Knute & Brass miss the mark, when it was LISTENING/HEARING to any stories (i.e. MSM news sources one watches and HEARS, such as CNN, MSNBC, Any of the evening news programs by the big 3.....etc., etc., etc.), that I was referring to.
Uh, you are aware, aren't you, that Chris Matthews in ON MSNBC, right?
Yea.....and? That takes up 1 finger, and likely was a slip of the tongue that 1 time
Example of how Sirs-World® works. Sirs presents a point of view. Someone else presents EVIDENCE THAT REFUTES SIRS' POINT OF VIEW. Sirs only sees evidence that refutes sirs' point of view. "evidence" is probably false and/or does not refute sirs' point of view.
Gotta love Brass' revisionist applications. Evidence is ACTUAL evidence, not a reporters speculation of what might be. Evidence that refutes sirs point of few of a microscopic referencing of the qualifier Democrat to Governor Sonofabich is hardly a pointing to 1 example, in which sirs references a likely only going to find 1 or 2 examples. "catch how many times you hear a story about Gov Sonofabich simply referred to as a Democrat, or the Democrat Governor of Illinois. Doubt you'll need more than 1 hand, if not only 1-2 fingers"
Left must be right, in Brassland
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Then how does he run for Govenor and win?
Did a lot of people in the party kinow what kind of guy he was and the public didn't?
He ran as the candidate of change!
He ran as a reform candidate.
He ran as the anti pay to play candidate.
He ran against a guy named Ryan, coincidentally the same last name as the previous Governor Jim Ryan who choose not to run again because he was under investigation for selling licenses as sec of state.
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At least I have a mind to set rather than spout prejudice
But that is what you do. You assume that those mid to right are your enemies. You prejudge.
But what is more amazing is that you would rather be lied to than to be trusted to evaluate the ramifications of the truth, just as long as that same truth is withheld from the rest of this nation.
The people to the right are every decent persons enemy. That is just a fact. They hold their money dearer than their humanity.
I do not assume that I am being lied to by a genuine human being. You think they are lies because lying is what you must do to win your shallow points. I know their are sometimes shades of truth . Lies are always black or white which is why it is all you can see in your colorless world.
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I do not assume that I am being lied to by a genuine human being.
So you don't consider Obama a genuine human being?
Equivocating is not telling the truth.
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I do not assume that I am being lied to by a genuine human being.
So you don't consider Obama a genuine human being?
Equivocating is not telling the truth.
He is much more of a human than any of us cybersillies in here. You are the one accusing him of equivocation which is not really lying anyway.
http://www.answers.com/topic/equivocation (http://www.answers.com/topic/equivocation)
Lying a country into war like the Bushidiot did.. Now THERE is real lying.
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I don't see why Obama should be held to a bell curve. Either he avoids telling the truth or he doesn't.
If he does he is the same as a liar.
What makes me uncomfortable is if he equivocates on the small stuff like smoking , what will he do on the big stuff that matters.
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I don't see why Obama should be held to a bell curve. Either he avoids telling the truth or he doesn't.
If he does he is the same as a liar.
What makes me uncomfortable is if he equivocates on the small stuff like smoking , what will he do on the big stuff that matters.
Still equivocation is only a lie to those that want it to be for their own gain.
Equivocation is a staple of politics. Your guys by-passed that and went directly for big fucken lies.
Not even lying about a blow job is as bad as lying US into war and depression
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Still equivocation is only a lie to those that want it to be for their own gain.
Nonsense. A lie is a lie.
Equivocation is a staple of politics.
The One was all about change so why excuse his old school moves.
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Lying a country into war like the Bushidiot did.. Now THERE is real lying.
Yeah. LBJ just equivocated.
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Lying a country into war like the Bushidiot did.. Now THERE is real lying.
Yeah. LBJ just equivocated.
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They were both colossal liars. But the second fool to try it has to be the bigger fool.
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The first fool is responsible for 10x the deaths.
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Lying a country into war like the Bushidiot did.. Now THERE is real lying.
Yeah. LBJ just equivocated.
What a stupid thing to say.- Johnson lied as well. He wasnt one of my faves either.
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The first fool is responsible for 10x the deaths.
Actually Lincoln was responsible for almost 10 times as many as LBJ- But y'all Southerners think he was a fool too I suppose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_casualties_of_war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_casualties_of_war)
Personally , I dont think so , but both the Bushidiot and LBJ were for sure.
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Still equivocation is only a lie to those that want it to be for their own gain.
Nonsense. A lie is a lie.
Equivocation is a staple of politics.
The One was all about change so why excuse his old school moves.
But equivocation is not a lie.
Equivocation is half-way to lying, and lying the whole way to hell.
- William Penn
The return to equivocation instead of BIG Lies is a major change after the Bush Admenstruation.
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equivocating is being less than truthful.
lying is being less than truthful.
If Obama is being less than truthful about the small stuff he certainly won't hesitate to be less than truthful about the big stuff.
Doesn't matter about Bush, we are discussing Obama.
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equivocating is being less than truthful.
lying is being less than truthful.
If Obama is being less than truthful about the small stuff he certainly won't hesitate to be less than truthful about the big stuff.
Doesn't matter about Bush, we are discussing Obama.
Lying is more than less than truthful , but you wouldnt know that because you love the lies that benefit you. Lying about small shit is what is called white lies.Like Does this dress make my ass look fat- No dear. And have you given up smoking- Yes , but I have backslid) They are of no consequence because they hurt nothing unlike lying US into war which hurts a lot of somethings. Of course, you dont want to bring up Bush because his lies, which you bought into, have almost destroyed the nation You would rather spread more lies about someone that could undo the damage his real lies have caused.
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have you given up smoking- Yes , but I have backslid
Obama didn't even have the character to say that.
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have you given up smoking- Yes , but I have backslid
Obama didn't even have the character to say that.
I was paraphrasing, butt I was close :
“I have,” Mr Obama replied, smiling broadly. “What I said was that there are times where I have fallen off the wagon.”
Y'all do have such a penchant for making mountains out of molehill when there is a fuck of a lot more to worry about since your inamorato screwed up everything in his 8 years of Destruction Derby
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Noting that the White House was a no-smoking zone, Brokaw asked Obama, "Have you stopped smoking?"
"I have," Obama replied, smiling broadly. "What I said was that there are times where I have fallen off the wagon."
"Wait a minute," Brokaw interjected, "that means you haven't stopped."
"Fair enough," Obama said.
Even Obama agrees he got caught in a lie.
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Noting that the White House was a no-smoking zone, Brokaw asked Obama, "Have you stopped smoking?"
"I have," Obama replied, smiling broadly. "What I said was that there are times where I have fallen off the wagon."
"Wait a minute," Brokaw interjected, "that means you haven't stopped."
"Fair enough," Obama said.
Even Obama agrees he got caught in a lie.
Or else , he might not have wanted to argue about something so silly like we are.
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Giving up smoking is a personal matter. It is not illegal to smoke even in the White House. I don't think trying someone for perjury about their quitting smoking is valid.
This is a silly topic.
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It is not illegal to smoke even in the White House.
Congress made smoking in the White House illegal during Clinton's term, IIRC.
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I doubt that it is illegal in the president's living quarters.
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It is not illegal to smoke even in the White House. I don't think trying someone for perjury about their quitting smoking is valid.
No one is talking about perjury. We are talking about expectations for honesty in your public officials.
I disagree that that is a silly topic.
What I am seeing is a double standard.
Lying about smoking is on par with being accused about lying about the size of fish you caught, which if i recall correctly, had the kossacks nearly orgasmic believing they had caught W in a lie.
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I doubt that it is illegal in the president's living quarters.
Actually, I just looked it up. Yes, the ban effects ALL properties controlled by the Executive Branch and extends to 15' outside all buildings. However, it was an executive order, so Obama can rescind it if he wants.
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It is not illegal to smoke even in the White House. I don't think trying someone for perjury about their quitting smoking is valid.
No one is talking about perjury. We are talking about expectations for honesty in your public officials.
I disagree that that is a silly topic.
What I am seeing is a double standard.
Lying about smoking is on par with being accused about lying about the size of fish you caught, which if i recall correctly, had the kossacks nearly orgasmic believing they had caught W in a lie.
Lying about the size of a fish is the least of the Bushidiot's lies by far. I really dont give a shit about the shallowness of Kossack's as the silliness of you trying to make out that Obama is a liar based on the silliest of pretext when your hero is a proven black liar of the worst sort.
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Lying about the size of a fish is the least of the Bushidiot's lies by far. I really dont give a shit about the shallowness of Kossack's as the silliness of you trying to make out that Obama is a liar based on the silliest of pretext when your hero is a proven black liar of the worst sort.
Fact is Obama lied about his smoking. And you think lying is ok.
That has been the point of this exchange all along.
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Lying about the size of a fish is the least of the Bushidiot's lies by far. I really dont give a shit about the shallowness of Kossack's as the silliness of you trying to make out that Obama is a liar based on the silliest of pretext when your hero is a proven black liar of the worst sort.
Fact is Obama lied about his smoking. And you think lying is ok.
That has been the point of this exchange all along.
You called it equivocation and equivocation is not lying was my main point to begin with. You have not shown in any way by picking on this silly side show about smoking that Obama is a liar in any way shape or form. He is apparently still trying to quit and might succeed . Where as the Bushidiot is a a proven liar and failure in everything he has done. You would prefer of course that Big O fail as badly and would like to undermine him anyway you can. This issue is a really dumb one to to attempt that.
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"Have you stopped smoking?"
"I have," Obama replied, smiling broadly.
He lied. End of story.
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"Have you stopped smoking?"
"I have," Obama replied, smiling broadly.
He lied. End of story.
I haven't read the entire piece, but I would think that he might have been telling the truth - and then slipped. Lord knows, I've done that quite a few times in my life.
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To quit smoking, one has to convince himself that one is no longer a smoker. Getting rid of an addiction is a difficult process, and much of it is a matter of psyching one up for it.
Quitting smoking is a personal matter, like drinking coffee. It is just plain dumb to assume that anyone who says they have quit and smokes again is some sort of pathological liar.
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He was asked a question, lied about it, when called on it he changed his story. All within 30 seconds.
He lied.
It amazes me to see all this excuse making over the fact that he lied.
Doesn't matter what he lied about, Apparently it doesn't matter that he lied, period.
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“It's easy to quit smoking. I've done it hundreds of times.”-Mark Twain
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html)
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“It's easy to quit smoking. I've done it hundreds of times.”-Mark Twain
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html)
\
Careful- BT will be calling Twain a liar now.
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It's true. Libs have strange ideas about what is or isn't the truth. Very selective. they even admire liberals who are good at it. The old reprobate Clinton for example. The media even said when Clinton lied, which was often, it was a good thing because he was doing to spare people from inconvenient truths.
Pretty screwed up huh?
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“It's easy to quit smoking. I've done it hundreds of times.”-Mark Twain
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html)
\
Careful- BT will be calling Twain a liar now.
He could, Mark Twain wasn't even his real name.
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“It's easy to quit smoking. I've done it hundreds of times.”-Mark Twain
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html)
\
Careful- BT will be calling Twain a liar now.
He could, Mark Twain wasn't even his real name.
I quess that proves that not telling the truth isnt always a lie.
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quess that proves that not telling the truth isnt always a lie.
Where is the lie in using a pen name. Denying the pen name would be a lie.
You apparently just don't get it.
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Mark Twain used to say that he was a better man than George Washington, because Washington could not tell a lie, but Twain could, and wouldn't.
I think everyone knew ten years after Twain was first published that Mark Twain (which means Two Fathoms of water) was a pen name.
Mississippi riverboats had a very shallow draft, because the depth of the river varies quite a bit. I was surprised that the riverboats on the Uruguay and Paraná Rivers in South America were not flat bottomed, even though these rivers (which are wider than the Mississippi where I was, are also somewhat shallow. Not as many snags, though.
Some Amazon riverboats are more like Mississippi steamers.
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quess that proves that not telling the truth isnt always a lie.
Where is the lie in using a pen name. Denying the pen name would be a lie.
You apparently just don't get it.
It was Plane that thought you might think it a lie , not I. That doesnt change the fact that not all completely accurate statements are lies. You sure as hell have been giving the Bushidiot credit for being stupid instead of a liar when he said there were WMD's there and ties to AlQaieda when there were none when we attacked Iraq.
I think it is you who doesnt get it and in a much more destructive way.
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“It's easy to quit smoking. I've done it hundreds of times.”-Mark Twain
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html)
\
Careful- BT will be calling Twain a liar now.
Liar
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“It's easy to quit smoking. I've done it hundreds of times.”-Mark Twain
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html)
\
Careful- BT will be calling Twain a liar now.
Liar
What did I tell ya!?
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“It's easy to quit smoking. I've done it hundreds of times.”-Mark Twain
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html)
\
Careful- BT will be calling Twain a liar now.
He could, Mark Twain wasn't even his real name.
I quess that proves that not telling the truth isnt always a lie.
Samuel Clemons business was crafting fiction for sale , tall tales are just good fun if everyone involved knows the diffrenceand doesn't expect facts.
Duplicity , intent to deceive , defraud , manipulate or mislead is diffrent in the basis of intent.
So in which direction does "equivocate" point? Is it a white lie intended to harmlessly prevent embarrasment?
Or is it a mark of shame that the shame cannot be acnoledged ?
Quitting smokeing,a tough process that takes months to accomplish , I wouldn't quit while I was also trying to get elected, but it isn't cool to smoke anymore , BHO is probly embarrased by it.
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“It's easy to quit smoking. I've done it hundreds of times.”-Mark Twain
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html)
\
Careful- BT will be calling Twain a liar now.
He could, Mark Twain wasn't even his real name.
I quess that proves that not telling the truth isnt always a lie.
Samuel Clemons business was crafting fiction for sale , tall tales are just good fun if everyone involved knows the diffrenceand doesn't expect facts.
Duplicity , intent to deceive , defraud , manipulate or mislead is diffrent in the basis of intent.
So in which direction does "equivocate" point? Is it a white lie intended to harmlessly prevent embarrasment?
Or is it a mark of shame that the shame cannot be acnoledged ?
Quitting smokeing,a tough process that takes months to accomplish , I wouldn't quit while I was also trying to get elected, but it isn't cool to smoke anymore , BHO is probly embarrased by it.
Good analysis. Plane. None of the above indicates that Big O is a liar , but rather a human. I will appreciatet a real human for a Pres for a change.
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“It's easy to quit smoking. I've done it hundreds of times.”-Mark Twain
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html)
\
Careful- BT will be calling Twain a liar now.
He could, Mark Twain wasn't even his real name.
I quess that proves that not telling the truth isnt always a lie.
Samuel Clemons business was crafting fiction for sale , tall tales are just good fun if everyone involved knows the diffrenceand doesn't expect facts.
Duplicity , intent to deceive , defraud , manipulate or mislead is diffrent in the basis of intent.
So in which direction does "equivocate" point? Is it a white lie intended to harmlessly prevent embarrasment?
Or is it a mark of shame that the shame cannot be acnoledged ?
Quitting smokeing,a tough process that takes months to accomplish , I wouldn't quit while I was also trying to get elected, but it isn't cool to smoke anymore , BHO is probly embarrased by it.
Good analysis. Plane. None of the above indicates that Big O is a liar , but rather a human. I will appreciatet a real human for a Pres for a change.
I wish President Bush could get cut the same slack.
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“It's easy to quit smoking. I've done it hundreds of times.”-Mark Twain
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-s-easy-to-quit-smoking-i-ve-done-it-hundreds/348623.html)
\
Careful- BT will be calling Twain a liar now.
He could, Mark Twain wasn't even his real name.
I quess that proves that not telling the truth isnt always a lie.
Samuel Clemons business was crafting fiction for sale , tall tales are just good fun if everyone involved knows the diffrenceand doesn't expect facts.
Duplicity , intent to deceive , defraud , manipulate or mislead is diffrent in the basis of intent.
So in which direction does "equivocate" point? Is it a white lie intended to harmlessly prevent embarrasment?
Or is it a mark of shame that the shame cannot be acnoledged ?
Quitting smokeing,a tough process that takes months to accomplish , I wouldn't quit while I was also trying to get elected, but it isn't cool to smoke anymore , BHO is probly embarrased by it.
Good analysis. Plane. None of the above indicates that Big O is a liar , but rather a human. I will appreciatet a real human for a Pres for a change.
I wish President Bush could get cut the same slack.
He doesnt deserve it . He lied us into war and destroyed the economy at the same time. No small feat I must admit.
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Give Obama time.
He already has the lying part down pat.
Let's see where that leads.
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Give Obama time.
He already has the lying part down pat.
Let's see where that leads.
Y'all already have the lying part down to a science and see what that got US. Equivocation might be a lot better than this shit.
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Y'all already have the lying part down to a science and see what that got US. Equivocation might be a lot better than this shit.
But the subject under discussion is Obama's tendency to lie. It really doesn't matter if any one else lies, including yourself, as has been shown, just that Obama does.