A Joke And What It Reveals

[Michael Tee]

<<Why was the Soviet Union building a lot in the Late Seventys and early eightys?>>

Self-defence?

Helping Central American rebels against attack by U.S.-sponsored death squads?  Helping the Sandinistas against the U.S.-sponsored contras?  Supporting People's Revolution in Latin America?

[Xavier_Onassis]

The Russians were just playing keep-up-with-the Joneses.

The US, on the other hand, had the mission of keeping things buzzing at Pascagoula and Newport News to make Harry Byrd, and Senators Eastland, Stennis and later, Lott happy.

[Plane]

A strong US Navy has been US policy since John Paul Jones.

If we want to influence the world positively , we must first have hte ability to influence the world , and with the worlds first Navy we can block cross water invasions .

Since WWII how many such invasions have we allowed?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Since WWII how many such invasions have we allowed?
Certainly, the US allowed the French to invade Mexico.

They cooperated with France and England in an invasion of Venezuela in the 1920's.

Indonesia invaded the West part of New Guinea and they did nothing.



How many have been attempted?

[Plane]

Since WWII how many such invasions have we allowed?
Certainly, the US allowed the French to invade Mexico.

They cooperated with France and England in an invasion of Venezuela in the 1920's.

Indonesia invaded the West part of New Guinea and they did nothing.



How many have been attempted?

Less and less, the stronger the US has gotten the less chance there has been for Imperialism.

[Michael Tee]

<< . . . the stronger the US has gotten the less chance there has been for Imperialism.>>

Of course, plane is not referring to U.S. imperialism.  Just the other kind, the bad kind.

XO, the U.S. also "permitted" its fascist ally, Argentina, to invade the Falkland Islands of its non-fascist ally, Great Britain.

[Xavier_Onassis]

XO, the U.S. also "permitted" its fascist ally, Argentina, to invade the Falkland Islands of its non-fascist ally, Great Britain.
   

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So much for the Monroe Doctrine, hunh.

In the long history over the Malvinas (Falklands), the US position was that they belonged to no one. They declared that in the 1850's, after the US Navy freed some whalers from some gauchos who were sort of affiliated with the government of las Provincias Undidas de Buenos Aires. They captured all the gauchos they could catch and deposited them on the mainland.

The US is an imperialist power, as we have seen in Iraq. The Argentine claim to the Malvinas is at least as convincing as those of the UK.

It is a common sight in Argentina to see signs along the highway that state "Las Malvinas son Argentinas".
In an Argentine film I saw a couple of weeks ago, they showed one of those signs, but the word 'Argentinas' was cropssed out and the words "de los pingüinos" were scribbled in.

Las Malvinas son de los pingüinos" = The Falklands belong to the penguins.

Lots of Argentines seem to have this position. Of course, it is not wise to ask people you don;t know pretty well about this, because it is like Vietnam for Americans, a shameful defeat in a useless war.

[Michael Tee]

<<The Argentine claim to the Malvinas is at least as convincing as those of the UK.>>

The major problem with the Argentinian claim is that most of the islanders are of British descent and will never consent to living under Argentinian rule.  Nor are the British people prepared to abandon their brothers and sisters.

[Xavier_Onassis]

The major problem with the Argentinian claim is that most of the islanders are of British descent and will never consent to living under Argentinian rule.  Nor are the British people prepared to abandon their brothers and sisters.

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There are very few native Falkland Islanders. Those who work for the shepherding company are hired and sent there and it is the only game around. It's not like we were talking about a real country with a real nationality here. There are only around 3000 people, all of them British citizens that live there. By Argentine law, they are also Argentine citizens. Relocating those who really liked the Queen more than the Falklands delightful climate, say, the Scottish Hebrides, would not be a problem.

There was very little reason for Argentina's junta to start this war, as the Falklands just aren't worth dying over. There was even less reason for the Brits to retake the islands, since there is even less reason to  launch a huge invasion force to go there are die over.


The junta started the war to win favor with the people, who have been taught in school since the 1940's that the Falklands are Argentine. Maggie Thatcher was glad to have a cause to get her subjects to rally around, since by 1980 she was slipping in the polls.


The last surviving ship at Pearl Harbor, renamed the General Belgrano, was sunk by the Brits in the Falklands War.

[Michael Tee]

Ironic that Maggie, who never met a fascist dictator she didn't like, was instrumental in the overthrow of the Argentine junta, as was the fascist-loving Reagan, who didn't want to take sides and demand a halt to the invasion.  Sort of bolstered my idea that if a fascist is given enough rope, he will eventually manage to hang himself because of his natural arrogance and stupidity.  Reagan gave the bastards the rope and Maggie was forced into tying it around their necks and springing the trapdoor.

[Plane]

Ironic that Maggie, who never met a fascist dictator she didn't like, was instrumental in the overthrow of the Argentine junta, as was the fascist-loving Reagan, who didn't want to take sides and demand a halt to the invasion.  Sort of bolstered my idea that if a fascist is given enough rope, he will eventually manage to hang himself because of his natural arrogance and stupidity.  Reagan gave the bastards the rope and Maggie was forced into tying it around their necks and springing the trapdoor.

You cannot part with a compliment for Reagan or Thatcher even in these circumstances?

[Plane]

<< . . . the stronger the US has gotten the less chance there has been for Imperialism.>>

Of course, plane is not referring to U.S. imperialism.  Just the other kind, the bad kind.

XO, the U.S. also "permitted" its fascist ally, Argentina, to invade the Falkland Islands of its non-fascist ally, Great Britain.

That is right , American governments practice a backwards imperialism.

The old fashioned imperalists conquered a land , subjugated its population and stripped it of rescorces.

Americans conquer a land , improve the condition of the people , give them gifts of huge size , empower the people and leave. I don't feel like apologiseing for stepping on the necks of tyrants even if we are big enough to make the tyrant seem like David.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Americans conquer a land , improve the condition of the people , give them gifts of huge size , empower the people and leave. I don't feel like apologiseing for stepping on the necks of tyrants even if we are big enough to make the tyrant seem like David.


Americans invade, install a puppet government and economic controls that favor US companies, get the government addicted to the US market, then use it as a tool for extracting money. This is what they have done and are doing in Mexico and Central America. The percentage of middle class Mexicans has not changed upwards in thirty years, although in the 80's it plummeted.

US products like Marlboro, Coca-Cola, Burger King, McDonald's, etc. are hawked through all manner of advertising and sold at near US prices. Shops are offered a huge discount to stop selling non-Coke and non-Pepsi locally made products. Once the locals are run out of business, they collaborate to form monopolies. If the US gives "huge gifts", these are given to a few of the elite.

And the US does not give a sh*t about empowerment of the people. Go anywhere that the US has taken over-- Korea, the Dominican Republic, Salvador, Panama, Grenada, and ask the people if they feel "empowered". The US has installed far more tyrants than they have overthrown.

[Plane]

then use it as a tool for extracting money.

Wow , I wish that were true.

Iraq is just about to make a lot of money , but I don't get the feeling that they are going to feel like shareing it with us.

[Michael Tee]

<<You cannot part with a compliment for Reagan or Thatcher even in these circumstances?>>

Sure, Maggie did the right thing and smacked down the fascist junta, causing their ultimate downfall. 

Reagan, as usual, was totally despicable.  He held a lot of financial leverage over the junta but didn't want to alienate anyone who ran such a fine bunch of torture chambers and murder factories and kept their population so admirably terrorized.