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Mike Pence: Condoms Are Too Modern
August 11, 2016 by Michael Stone 170 Comments
Mike Pence claims condoms are too modern, and too liberal.
Donald Trump’s running mate is a dangerous Christian extremist who wants creationism taught in public schools and believes the government should pay for gay conversion therapy.
In addition, in 2015, as Governor of Indiana, Pence allowed an HIV outbreak to spread, choosing prayer over a clean needle exchange.
But perhaps one of the most idiotic claims made by Pence is that condoms are too “modern,” too “liberal,” and offer a poor defense against sexually transmitted infections and diseases.
Pence’s bizarre and unsubstantiated claims concerning condoms came in 2002, in response to then-Secretary of State Colin Powell saying in an MTV forum that sexually active young people should protect themselves with condoms.
At the time Powell said:
I think it’s important for young people, especially, to protect themselves from the possibility of acquiring any sexually transmitted disease, but especially to protect themselves from HIV/AIDS, which is a plague that is upon the face of the earth.
In an interview with CNN, while advocating for abstinence only sex education, Pence said Powell’s call for condom use could mislead millions of young people and put their lives at risk.
Pence told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer that it was “a sad day” because Powell had suggested condoms over abstinence:
Well, Wolf, I think it was — given the enormous stature that Colin Powell rightly has, not only in America but in the world community — it was a sad day. I don’t think any administration has had a worse day since boxers and briefs on MTV. And the truth is that Colin Powell had an opportunity here to reaffirm this president’s commitment to abstinence as the best choice for our young people, and he chose not to do that in the first instance, but — and so I think it’s very sad.
The other part is that, frankly, condoms are a very, very poor protection against sexually transmitted diseases, and in that sense, Wolf, this was — the secretary of state may be inadvertently misleading millions of young people and endangering lives.
Pence then went on to suggest that condoms are “too modern,” and too “liberal,” for him:
The problem is it was too modern of an answer, Wolf. It was — it truly was a modern, liberal answer to a problem that parents like me are facing all over America, and frankly, all over the world.
Of course Pence is wrong. His claim that condoms are a “very poor protection against sexually transmitted diseases” is easy to debunk. The CDC reports:
when used consistently and correctly, condoms are highly effective in preventing the sexual transmission of HIV infection and reduce the risk of other STDs.
As for condoms being “too modern,” reports indicate many ancient cultures used some form of condoms, and a famous cave painting in Dordogne, France, shows a man practicing safe sex circa 11,000 B.C.
In more contemporary times, rubber replaced animal intestines in condoms around the mid 1800s, and latex replaced rubber in the 1920s.
Needless to say, there is nothing modern about condoms.
Bottom line: Pence is an ignorant and dangerous religious extremist. By disseminating false and misleading information about condoms, Pence demonstrates that he is willing to endanger the health and welfare of young people in order to promote his demented, right-wing, conservative Christian, puritanical agenda.
- See more at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2016/08/mike-pence-condoms-are-too-modern/?ref_widget=popular&ref_blog=laughingindisbelief&ref_post=the-atheist-pig-nate-brunswick-pt-1#sthash.rVWDrV1T.dpuf
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So scientifically , what is the failure rate for condoms for prevention of STDs particularly Aids?
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Whats the failure rate of abstinence. Meaning a person who previously decide to be abstinence but failed to adhere to it. I understand many if not all supporters only believe it's only a do or do not situation with no exceptions. But the exception is they had sex despite they decided not to. Which opens to people who has no other alternatives like condoms.
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Condoms are quite effective at preventing pregnancy. I would imagine the same is true for STD's.
http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/answered-questions/explanation-condom-failure-rates
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if you think about it condoms should be supported by the abstinence crowd since it`s the least fun form of safe sex. it`s super crazy easy to convince a man to not use it. it even insulting for some people to use. it`s hardly acceptable.
a man can brag about not using a condom and have kids he can`t afford. but using a condom is shameful. notice abstinence is not even mentioned
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Condoms are the least fun form?
Putting them on can at times be problematical, but they do not seem like a great hindrance to me.
Pills, loops subcutaneous shots are all things men do not need to bother with
Female uterine dams are certainly a bigger mess than condoms.
My parents used only condoms and douches and never had any unwanted pregnancies. There is some Catholic website that has a whole bunch of false statistics.
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It takes very little to get a guy to not use a condom.
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Whats the failure rate of abstinence. Meaning a person who previously decide to be abstinence but failed to adhere to it. I understand many if not all supporters only believe it's only a do or do not situation with no exceptions. But the exception is they had sex despite they decided not to. Which opens to people who has no other alternatives like condoms.
This form of failure is alike for abstinence and condoms, it fails to be used.
This should not be part of the answer I am looking for , when they are used properly, how much does disease transfer happen anyway?
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Condoms are quite effective at preventing pregnancy. I would imagine the same is true for STD's.
http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/answered-questions/explanation-condom-failure-rates
That is more like a real answer.
Thanks.
"typical" use is a separate category , I suppose, because there is more "typical" use than "proper " use?
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"typical" use is a separate category , I suppose, because there is more "typical" use than "proper " use?
I doubt that there is any way of getting a valid study of the percentages of typical and proper use.
You would need to have observers in an atypical setting. The fact that people are observed would surely skew the results.
A combination of douches and condoms would reduce the failure rate to near zero.
My parents and their brothers and sisters had no accidental births. No one had over three children, spaced in the way that Dr Spock advised. This seemed to be the case in most of the Protestant families where I grew up.
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So is it fair to say that the failure rate for condoms overall is .... a little over 10% for preventing the spread of STDs?
With a rate of five percent or less for people who use it entirely correctly?
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Yes
But those data include the same situation as abstinence. It include people who intend to use condoms but did not.
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The fact is that young people are not very likely to refrain entirely from sex based on what a president says or what Colin Powell or any such figure says.
If people, mostly men, are equipped with condoms, they are more likely to use them. If they take some "pledge" to refrain entirely from sex, then they will not use condoms and a greater number of unwanted pregnancies will result.
Pence simply showing that he is some form of extremist fundamentalist here.
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No , he is just honest with the math.
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But only on condoms not about people who fail at abstinence
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So is it fair to say that the failure rate for condoms overall is .... a little over 10% for preventing the spread of STDs?
With a rate of five percent or less for people who use it entirely correctly?
First off, not everyone that has unprotected sex with a person that has STDs gets infected.
If one uses condoms with someone who is not infected, the chances of becoming infected are nil.
So your 5% and 10% figures would have to apply to only those people who would definitely have gotten infected had they not used a condom. I doubt that there is any accurate way outside the laboratory of gathering accurate statistics for this at all.
The fact is that Pence is making inaccurate statements regarding pregnancy and the contraction of STDs and he should have availed himself of the real facts before opening his mouth in public.
Abstinence would work if everyone would abstain according to the dictates of the Holy Mother Church.
Just like drunken driving would end completely if no one drank alcohol.
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condom use does has a failure rate but as I brought up so does abstinence. The same guy who doesn't like to use condom also may fail to follow abstinence .
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The urge for sex is strongest in young people in their teens and twenties. The tendency is that many of them, particularly girls, are easily convinced to take pledges of abstinence. But later, with their boyfriend and perhaps under the influence, they have sex anyway, and of course, they have no birth control stuff and get pregnant or infected. For them to be prepared would be an admission that they are planning to (gasp!) sin.
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and thats the flaw of abstinence.
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But only on condoms not about people who fail at abstinence
Check the math.
Condoms and abstinence have about the same rate of failure , and for about the same reasons.
Neither one of these methods should be called worthless.
It is just clear that this choice ought to be made by the best informed people , which we all ought to be.
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No , he is just honest with the math.
No, the point is that he ISN'T honest with the math at all.
I can speak from experience about condoms. In my life they have been 100% effective: no STDs, no pregnancies.
For a politician to say that condoms are ineffective results in a lot of people not even trying to use them. He is a supercatholic dick.
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...............typical condom use, between 10 and 15 out of 100 sexually active women will become pregnant. During a year of perfect condom use, that number drops to between two and three out of 100 sexually active women becoming pregnant
...............21 percent (typical use) and 5 percent (perfect use) of women who use the female condom experience an unintended pregnancy within the first year of use.
............in zero to two percent of couples who correctly and consistently used male condoms for both vaginal and anal sex. With typical use, the HIV transmission rate increased to between 10 and 15 percent.
http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/answered-questions/explanation-condom-failure-rates
The typical and the perfect use of abstinence produce failure rates about this good.
Teaching that sex is impossible to resist or avoid should not be done, sex has dangers that contraception does not address and failure rates move up from "perfect use" pretty fast.
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The birth rate in Catholic countries like Italy and Hungary is below the replacement rate. This is also true among US Catholics.
This is NOT due to abstinence.
The "statistics" you post are bogus, and so is Mike Pence.
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I only know about italy. The low birthrate is caused simply because the ladies are just not attracted to the men over there. It was even talk about in an episode of 20 20
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The condom fail rate Pence mentions results in far more pregnancies and probable SDT infections than reality indicates.
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The "statistics" you post are bogus, ....................
I didn't bother to check them , they are from the site you posted.
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I get the impression bothsides claim the other doesn't work and wont even talk a out it as a option or whatever.
Both do show the negatives but it seems pretty infective. This past decade the teen pregnancy did go down but for totslky different reasons and actually was thought was a promotion to teen pregnancy.
Those mtv teen mom shows has gotten the pregnancy rate alot lower.mit really turned the kids off
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One cannot use both techniques at once. Using condoms is not being abstainate.
But both of these fail if used with less than perfect discipline.
And both work for those willing and able to exhibit consistent discipline.
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I doubt that teens are abstaining in the classic sense more. What seems to be happening is that there is a lot more oral sex happening, and perhaps more buggery as well. Blow jobs, cunnilingus, Sixty-nining, and cornholery are all practices that do not cause pregnancy.
Teens now have cellphones, which means that there is more sexting going on. The shaving of pubic hair, especially among girls and women is becoming the in style, because it is far more photogenic. It also makes cunnilingus more pleasurable.
Not the sort of thing I would think that a bluenose like Mike Pence would be up on.
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Personally i think less sex is going due to too much porn is available. Lets just say the bar very high and alot of kids are getting disapppointed. Ill bet sexting is preferred more than the real stuff.porn itself doesn't even portray pleasurable sex. Way way too many jackhammering going on. Not way teenager will to do that repeatedly