Author Topic: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!  (Read 12628 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!
« Reply #150 on: December 04, 2010, 04:40:08 PM »
Quote
Union, power, money, and influence.

And what do unions have to do with GOP primaries.

As for Whitman, are you saying the conservative message in the primaries was not sufficient enough for her to win a general. Why did the conservative message fall on deaf ears, in Cali, is it flawed? Was it simply not in the best interest of the majority of Californians to embrace her message? Why the persuasion gap?


sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!
« Reply #151 on: December 04, 2010, 04:54:59 PM »
Seriously Bt, are you not paying attention??  I addressed Whitman and the primaries.  Her run to the center demonstrated very little credibility in adhering to the conservative principles she won with her primary victory.  She was running nearly identical ads in different languages, presenting completely different intentions.  Nothing wrong with the Conservative message, and everything wrong with the messenger

But to add salt to the wound, the unions piled on the $$$ and paid for Gloria Alred to smear Whitman with her former houskeeper, upon a constituency she had a fairly good chunk of.  But by then, her "message" had already lost most of its credibility.  As I said, salt to the wound
« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 05:31:35 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!
« Reply #152 on: December 04, 2010, 06:07:48 PM »
BT I am not sure what your agenda is this time,
but if you are seriously asking the simple question
of why Texas is more conservative than Cali even
if the Hispanic population is about the same, personally
I think it is because: #1 the white population of Texas
is much more conservative than the white poplulation
in Cali thus denying an unstoppable voting block....in Cali
you have liberal whites and Hispanics forming an unstoppable
voting block...and #2 in Texas you have state constitutional safe-guards
that were put in place by the Tx state founding fathers that realized way
back when that half-witted control freak liberals were coming
and thus they placed in the state constitution "No State Income
Tax" and only a part time legislature...part timers can do less
"know it all" damage than full time know-it-alls!

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!
« Reply #153 on: December 04, 2010, 09:04:09 PM »
I think by nature hispanics ( their predominate religions and patriarchal culture might have a lot to do with that) are naturally more conservative than many other minorities. Perhaps in Texas they are given the room to flourish. In California perhaps they have bought into the victimology mindset that is so prevalent with guilt ridden liberals and have surrendered to the state. I'm not sure what Conservative Republicans could offer than that might lessen their dependence on state programs.

When i lived in California Pat Brown was governor, Kennedy was President and Nixon would lose his race for Governor, the Assembly did not meet year round at that time, the Hispanics in my neighborhood owned small businesses, gas stations, construction companies, some in the foothills owned small ranches etc. Mike Sanchez and I had a corner on the market for lawn mowing in our neighborhood. They were as middle class as the rest of us.

Wonder what happened to their American Dream. Did they become alienated by the reaction of their neighbors to the farm workers strike led by Caesar Chavez? Was that the dividing wedge?  What happened after 1963 that made group identity more important than individual pursuit of the American Dream. And why was that change of mindset successful in California but not nearly as successful in other regions of the country.

I really don't have an agenda. I do have a lot of questions as to why it seems foolhardy to expect the pendulum to swing back to the right in the Golden State.




Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!
« Reply #154 on: December 04, 2010, 11:04:18 PM »
I guess "agenda" was not really the correct word...
more like "not sure where ya going with this"

I really can't see Cali "ever" swinging back conservative...
Sure Texas has as many hispanics as Cali
but Texas has lots more conservative whites than Cali
I think because of demographics Texas will start going dem within 10-12 years.
it's simple math....
it's the end game of intentional border chaos and allowed illegal invasion
Older whites die off
replaced by more and more poor, low skilled, hispanics
Sure Bush managed to make some inroads with Tx hispanics when he was governor
But poor low skilled immigrants are generally going to vote for the party that promises gvt goodies

as far as not being as successful elsewhere in the country
you just wait....this is a game in progress
it's a ticking time bomb....
and I think eventually the US if it holds together....because of demographics
will look a lot like Cali....a permanent democrat majority
eventually though....the creative producers will look to escape

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!
« Reply #155 on: December 05, 2010, 12:16:40 AM »
Texas is a Southern state. Texas had slaves. Texas protestants are more likely to be evangelicals, fundamentalists, and Baptists than Californians.

California has more diversity in everything: more diverse geography, more diverse population, more diverse weather, more diverse industry.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!
« Reply #156 on: December 05, 2010, 01:09:15 AM »
The Essence and Future of Texas vs. California
by Tory Gattis 11/21/2009

I know there have been a lot of articles and references to Texas vs. California recently in this blog, but, well, there's a new one with some genuinely new contributions to the argument ("America's Future: California vs. Texas", Trends magazine, hat tip to Jeff). And it says some nice things about Houston too, so how can I pass on it? The beginning of the article is here - including an overview of both states' situations - but here are some key additional excerpts:

    ...Both the Brookings Institution and Forbes Magazine studied America?s cities and rated them for how well they create new jobs. All of America?s top five job-creating cities were in Texas. It's more than purely economics and regulation can explain, though. Texas ? and Houston in particular ? has a broad mix of Hispanics, whites, Asians, and blacks with virtually no racial problems. Texas welcomes new people and exemplifies genuine tolerance. When Hurricane Katrina hit, Houston took in 100,000 people. Not surprisingly, Houston has more foreign consulates than any American city other than New York and Los Angeles.
    ...
    But, how did this happen? What?s wrong with California, and what?s right with Texas? It really comes down to four fundamental differences in the value systems embodied in these states:

    First, Texans on average believe in laissez-faire markets with an emphasis on individual responsibility. Since the '80s, California?s policy-makers have favored central planning solutions and a reliance on a government social safety net. This unrelenting commitment to big government has led to a huge tax burden and triggered a mass exodus of jobs. The Trends Editors examined the resulting migration in ?Voting with Our Feet,? in the April 2008 issue of Trends.

    Second, Californians have largely treated environmentalism as a ?religious sacrament? rather than as one component among many in maximizing people's quality of life. As we explained in ?The Road Ahead for Housing,? in the June 2009 issue of Trends, environmentally-based land-use restriction centered in California played a huge role in inflating the recent housing bubble. Similarly, an unwillingness to manage ecology proactively for man?s benefit has been behind the recent epidemic of wildfires.

    Third, California has placed ?ethnic diversity? above ?assimilation,? while Texas has done the opposite. ?Identity politics? has created psychological ghettos that have prevented many of California?s diverse ethnic groups and subcultures from integrating fully into the mainstream. Texas, on the other hand, has proactively encouraged all the state?s residents to join the mainstream.

    Fourth, beyond taxes, diversity, and the environment, Texas has focused on streamlining the regulatory and litigation burden on its residents. Meanwhile, California?s government has attempted to use regulation and litigation to transfer wealth from its creators to various special-interest constituencies.

They go on to make six forecasts:

   1. ...expect to see California?s loss of jobs to Nevada accelerate...
   2. ...expect to see a backlash in California and across the country against regulations, especially green initiatives that can?t clearly demonstrate a positive ROI...
   3. Watch for the smart money, including venture capital, to begin migrating to Texas for start-ups in many areas, including energy, info-tech, manufacturing, and biotech. Just as Delaware?s tax laws once encouraged numerous businesses to incorporate there, even when they had no connection to the state, Texas will become a magnet for new businesses by offering cheap land, a favorable regulatory environment, a business-friendly culture, and a large supply of skilled labor. Unless California revamps dramatically, expect to see its economy languish, even as the recovery takes off.
   4. To make its business climate even more business-friendly, Texas will invest heavily in secondary education and work hard to attract the best talent to its research universities (note the recent Tier 1 proposition and funding). Keep an eye especially on the University of Texas, which already has a first-rate campus and faculty. Within 10 years, UT, as the locals call it, may well rival Stanford or Berkeley.
   5. Other states will adopt tort reform measures pioneered in Texas. Unlike California and most other states, Texas has been aggressive in minimizing the enormous burden of frivolous lawsuits...
   6. Look to Texas to become a cutting-edge cultural mecca. Houston has always offered a vibrant cultural scene, ever since the Alley theater company was founded there in 1947 by Nina Eloise Whittington Vance. In the 1950s, John and Dominique de Menil moved to Houston with one of the most significant private collections of art in the world and began donating art and money to the Houston Museum of Fine Arts. Both institutions have grown to world-class status since then. In the coming years, this trend will spread to the major cities of Texas (take that, Dallas!), attracting the best talent and money and shifting the cultural balance of the nation away from New York and San Francisco.

I can personally vouch for #5. I was just visiting my brother out in CA, and a friend of his with a small store was being hit with a large disability discrimination lawsuit for a minor oversight (handicapped parking was marked on the ground and had the requisite walkways and ramps, but lacked a pole sign). Evidently this has become a cottage industry in California, where lawyers guide the disabled through stores looking for very minor violations of a vague law (things like high shelves or tables), then sue (expecting a quick settlement, of course). Under CA law, discrimination guilt is assumed if there's anything in the store the disabled can't do that a normal customer can do, regardless of the availability of employees to provide assistance. His friend was clearly exasperated with the unwinnable situation. Just plain nuts.

As Jim Goode says, "You might give some serious thought to thanking your lucky stars you're in Texas."

http://www.newgeography.com/content/001211-the-essence-and-future-texas-vs-california

bsb

  • Guest
Re: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!
« Reply #157 on: December 05, 2010, 01:39:54 AM »
>>Texas at the Top of Big Cities

Our list of best places among big cities is dominated this year, as last, by Texas, with the Lone Star State producing fully half of our top 10. This year, like last, the No. 1 big city (those with a more than 450,000 non-farm jobs) was Austin, Texas, which enjoys the benefits of being both the state capital and the home to the University of Texas, as well as a large, and growing, tech sector. Also beneficial is the Lone Star states two leading exports, steers and queers. <<

http://www.newgeography.com/content/001517-the-best-cities-for-jobs



Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!
« Reply #158 on: December 05, 2010, 10:49:20 AM »
Very interesting BT.....

I have a brother in the San Fran area and about ten years ago my brother and I helped him get in the same
business we are in here in Texas. It has been amazing to watch. My brother in San Fran is liberal but even he
says "I can't believe how anti-business the gvt is out here....they hound me to death". Here in Texas we
rarely see gvt bureaucrats, in San Fran he gets regular visits by all kinds of "gvt nannies" checking on him.

I think I told you about when my brother recently bought a world famous Olhausen Pool Table.
He talked on the telephone with one of the Olhausen brothers. My brother said "I thought you guys were in California?".
Mr. Olhausen said "we were, but we had to move, the bureaucrats were beating us to death...too much
wood dust in the plant, too much this, too little that....blah blah....so we picked up and moved to Tennessee
where the state gvt is not so anti-business...we love it here".
http://www.olhausenbilliards.com/THE+STORY/id/43/

It's sad for California. The Left is not going to have anyone left to tax!
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!
« Reply #159 on: December 05, 2010, 03:38:57 PM »
The people are't going to get it here, and I do believe it's past too late.  And guess which party has been in control of the Government of its direct decline, all this time? 

Yet it also says something when in a time of incredible anger at Government, for their excessive deficit spending, mountains of debt being placed on the tax payers of the future, and policies that have significantly exacerbated our unemployment, IIRC, not 1 state Democrat lost their incumbant position, in a race against someone else.  And the Executive Branch is now entirely Democrat

What's wrong with that picture?  To me, it's a picture that demonstrates that we've passed a tipping point, here in this once great state, and why I'm opining that it's too late.  The State is going to have to completely go to hell now, for the electorate to wise up.  At least in that, they are making significant progress
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!
« Reply #160 on: December 05, 2010, 04:43:51 PM »
I thought the redistricting problem was handled by Proposition 11 and the passage of Proposition 20?

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!
« Reply #161 on: December 05, 2010, 04:47:48 PM »
Too little, too late, I'm afraid
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!
« Reply #162 on: December 05, 2010, 04:49:58 PM »
Too little, too late, I'm afraid

How so?


sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!
« Reply #163 on: December 05, 2010, 08:44:19 PM »
Answered already.  The tipping point has been achieved, punctuated by the defeat of prop 23 and the passing of prop 25. 23 kills what job incentives we may have been able to kick start.  25 makes the GOP all but a hood ornament.  Prop 26 is the only thread left holding the state, while at the same time debunking your idea that fees aren't really taxes
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Obama lawyers want the military to continue to bar openly gay people!
« Reply #164 on: December 05, 2010, 09:02:22 PM »
Not answered. Your complaint

Quote
But to answer Cu4, it's a perfect window into why this state has fallen so far, so fast.  San Fran and LA, and the gerrymandered Democrat majority that run Sacramento have absolutely driven this state into ruin.....with the irony that most, if not all their policies are "for our own good"

was that through incumbent protection gerrymandering the dem assembly could perpetuate their majority. Propositions 11 and 20 took those duties away from the legislature and gave them to a citizens panel comprised of 5 dems 5 republicans and 4 independents. Seems like the incumbent protection scheme is broken.

So i'm not sure why you think it impossible for the pendulum to swing the other way. All the GOP has to do is convince the majority of voters in a given district that their platform is best suited for the people of California. It is, isn't it?