Author Topic: Fitzgerald points to Cheney  (Read 7260 times)

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Mucho

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Re: Fitzgerald points to Cheney
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2007, 11:32:15 AM »
Quote
The consequences of Libby's lies were far worse.

How so?

Valerie had to wear sunglasses and a scarf in her photo op with Vanity Fair?


You really are shallow & duped:




http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/13/04720/9340

All right I read it , now for you .
For all of your posturing and indignation
I would bet a doughnut that you do not really know what the "lie" was that Libbey is supposed to have told.

You really do make things too easy Plane:

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Libby 'Told a Dumb Lie,' Prosecutor Says in Closing Argument
By Carol D. Leonnig and Amy Goldstein
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, February 21, 2007; A04

Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff lied to investigators about his role in leaking a CIA officer's identity in order to keep his job and protect the White House from political embarrassment, prosecutors told jurors yesterday in the closing arguments of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby's perjury trial.

Pointing to a courtroom screen showing eight witnesses who contradicted Libby, Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald said it was no coincidence that Bush administration colleagues and reporters recalled Libby as intensely focused on undercover CIA officer Valerie Plame early in the summer of 2003, as her husband was publicly challenging the White House's rationale for going to war in Iraq.

"This is something important, something he was focused on, something he was angry about," Fitzgerald said. "He had a motive to lie, and . . . he stole the truth from the justice system."

Libby "told a dumb lie and got caught" when leak investigators refused to go away, Fitzgerald said. He added that Libby's lies had "left a cloud over the vice president" because Cheney's role in the leak remained unclear.

But two defense attorneys argued that Libby was a harried and hardworking public servant who was guilty only of forgetfulness about a relatively insignificant matter given his pressure-cooker job.

In impassioned, and at times disjointed arguments, the defense lawyers drew attention to numerous witnesses who had faulty or questionable memories and conflicting recollections. They said it was unfair to assume that the witnesses had made honest mistakes but that Libby's untruths were deliberate.

"If you're not sure, that's not guilty," said attorney Theodore Wells Jr. "It's impossible to say with any degree of certainty that Mr. Libby is engaged in intentional lying."

Libby is charged with five felonies: two counts of lying to FBI agents, two counts of perjuring himself in grand jury testimony and one count of obstructing the federal probe into whether Bush administration officials illegally leaked classified information by disclosing Plame's identity to reporters.

They say Libby lied when he told investigators he learned about Plame from NBC's Tim Russert and passed it along as unconfirmed gossip.

Libby has pleaded not guilty, contending he inaccurately remembered conversations that he recounted to FBI agents and a grand jury. No one is charged with the leak itself.

The 12-member jury will receive instructions from presiding U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton early today about how to weigh the high-profile case against Libby. Jurors are expected to begin deliberations before noon.

Plame is married to former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, whose accusations in 2003 that the Bush administration twisted intelligence to justify the war with Iraq set in motion events leading to the leak of his wife's name in a syndicated column by Robert Novak. Wilson's claims infuriated Cheney and others in the White House, and Cheney deputized Libby to contact reporters and rebut Wilson's claims.

Wilson turned out to be a potent critic. He had been sent to Niger by the CIA a year earlier to check on reports that Iraq had tried to obtain material for nuclear weapons there, and concluded that the reports were false. Within days of Wilson going public about his findings in July 2003 , the White House acknowledged that President Bush's State of the Union address should not have included the assertion that Iraq was trying to purchase uranium.

Fitzgerald told the jury yesterday that Libby was engaged in a campaign to make reporters skeptical of Wilson. His wife's post at the CIA and her role in suggesting him for the mission became a useful tool to insinuate that he wasn't qualified for the mission to Niger. The prosecutor disputed the defense's argument that Libby did not remember Plame because she was so trivial to him.

"To [Libby] she wasn't Valerie Wilson, she's wasn't a person," the prosecutor said, sipping from a plastic cup of water as he walked back and forth in front of the jury box. "She was an argument, a fact to use against Joe Wilson."

Prosecutor Peter Zeidenberg, summing up the government's evidence, said Libby "absolutely fabricates two conversations that never happened" -- with Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper and NBC's Russert. He said Libby's claim that he didn't remember the conversations was "just not credible" because Cheney considered the matter very important and it commanded much of Libby's time.

Zeidenberg also said Libby had several motives to lie. The president had said he would fire whoever had disclosed Plame's identity, a criminal investigation had begun, and, at Libby's urging, Cheney had personally vouched for Libby, getting the White House to say publicly that Libby was not the leaker.

In the defense's closing argument, Wells countered that the case was simply "he said, she said." He contended that it was "madness" to try to convict Libby of a crime based on his foggy memory about fragments of conversations that were the subject of FBI questions three and four months after they took place.

"It's a case about different recollections between Mr. Libby and some reporters," Wells said. "This is an important trial, and I represent an innocent man."

Wells said that Libby honestly believed he learned about Plame for the first time from Russert in a July 10, 2003, conversation -- a month after he was actually told about her by the vice president, Libby later acknowledged. Wells emphasized to the jury that Russert first told the FBI that he couldn't completely rule out discussing the subject with Libby because he talks to so many people.

"That's reasonable doubt right there," Wells said of an FBI agent's notes. "If you say, 'I believe Mr. Russert beyond a reasonable doubt,' my client's life would be destroyed. His reputation would be destroyed."

Defense attorney William Jeffress Jr. reminded the jury of the pointed questioning that Libby endured when Fitzgerald asked Libby several different ways about nearly every conversation he had in a two-month period in 2003.

"It's not easy being in a grand jury. And Mr. Libby was there for eight hours," Jeffress said. "If he got something wrong in eight hours of questioning, that wasn't an intentional lie. Which witness came in here that didn't get something wrong?"

Jeffress highlighted the conflict between testimony of former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer, who said he had not told Washington Post reporter Walter Pincus about Plame, and Pincus's account, in which Fleischer was his source for that information. Jeffress said there were a lot of possible explanations, including that Fleischer lied.

"Of course, possibilities don't cut it in a criminal case," Jeffress said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/20/AR2007022000122_pf.html

I bet if OJ had been in the Bush Admenstruation, you would think him innocent as well. You would be on firmer ground too because OJ was acquited by a jury of his peers. Your loathesome hero Libby was convicted.

BTW - I dont eat fattening doughnuts anymore than I swallow shit from the Bush Admenstruation.

sirs

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Re: Fitzgerald points to Cheney
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2007, 11:39:18 AM »
.....They say Libby lied when he told investigators he learned about Plame from NBC's Tim Russert and passed it along as unconfirmed gossip.

[/b]Libby has pleaded not guilty, contending he inaccurately remembered conversations that he recounted to FBI agents and a grand jury. No one is charged with the leak itself.....
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Mucho

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Re: Fitzgerald points to Cheney
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2007, 11:56:11 AM »
.....They say Libby lied when he told investigators he learned about Plame from NBC's Tim Russert and passed it along as unconfirmed gossip.

[/b]Libby has pleaded not guilty, contending he inaccurately remembered conversations that he recounted to FBI agents and a grand jury. No one is charged with the leak itself.....

So fucken what?Bill wasnt charged with perjury either and you fruitcakes keep harping on that. What Libby did was keep them from finding the real leaker . If they let Libby go maybe he will look for him on all the world's golf courses like OJ is Nicole & Rons real killers, ya think?
BTW-I actually do do not think this is over. When Libby heads to the slammer, he may take more with him.

sirs

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Re: Fitzgerald points to Cheney
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2007, 12:17:14 PM »
Quote
[/b]Libby has pleaded not guilty, contending he inaccurately remembered conversations that he recounted to FBI agents and a grand jury. No one is charged with the leak itself.....

So fucken what?Bill wasnt charged with perjury either and you fruitcakes keep harping on that.

Oooo, truth hurts, doesn't it.  And Billy boy was disbarred because of........what again??

« Last Edit: June 01, 2007, 01:00:47 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Mucho

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Re: Fitzgerald points to Cheney
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2007, 12:35:59 PM »
[/b]Libby has pleaded not guilty, contending he inaccurately remembered conversations that he recounted to FBI agents and a grand jury. No one is charged with the leak itself..... [/i]

So fucken what?Bill wasnt charged with perjury either and you fruitcakes keep harping on that.

Oooo, truth hurts, doesn't it.  And Billy boy was disbarred because of........what again??


[/quote]

How many times do I haveta tellya blind bozos? Contempt of court, loser.
http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?topic=2845.msg25128#msg25128

sirs

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Re: Fitzgerald points to Cheney
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2007, 01:14:07 PM »
How many times do I haveta tellya blind bozos? Contempt of court, loser.

Based on........Bad manners?  Wore the wrong tie to the office?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Mucho

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Re: Fitzgerald points to Cheney
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2007, 06:01:39 PM »
How many times do I haveta tellya blind bozos? Contempt of court, loser.

Based on........Bad manners?  Wore the wrong tie to the office?

You are truly every bit as stupid as i always thought. Contempt of court is not perjury which is a crime.Bill was not even charged with perjury buy the House Mismanagers because even those stup[id shits knew it was a bogus charge. He was not charged with any crime. The perjury is a figment of your demented minds. You keep repeating the perjury lie like you kept repeating the WMDs & ties to Al;Quaeda in Iraq. Nearly everyone now knows you were lying on all those bizarre fantasies.
You say something wrong once and it is a mistake. You continually repeat it when it is disproved is a lie of the worst sort.

sirs

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Re: Fitzgerald points to Cheney
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2007, 06:26:04 PM »
How many times do I haveta tellya blind bozos? Contempt of court, loser.

Based on........Bad manners?  Wore the wrong tie to the office?

You are truly every bit as stupid as i always thought. Contempt of court is not perjury which is a crime.

Ok, let's try 1 more time, with an even simpler question, that even knute should be able to comprehend.  Billy boy was found in contempt of court for __________ <fill in the blank>
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Mucho

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Re: Fitzgerald points to Cheney
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2007, 07:03:44 PM »
How many times do I haveta tellya blind bozos? Contempt of court, loser.

Based on........Bad manners?  Wore the wrong tie to the office?

You are truly every bit as stupid as i always thought. Contempt of court is not perjury which is a crime.

Ok, let's try 1 more time, with an even simpler question, that even knute should be able to comprehend.  Billy boy was found in contempt of court for <fill in the blank>

Since you are so fucken stupid that you not only cant think, but obviously not able to read what is laid out before you or recognize any truth UI will fill in your stupid blank , repeat the source and direct you to look at the bootm of page 1 for details

<fill in the blank>contempt of court for his willful violation of discovery orders. Note that Judge Wright NEVER (emphasis mine mentioned the word perjury in her opinion.
http://www.rbs0.com/Clinton.pdf
Anything else blind nutcase?

Amianthus

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Re: Fitzgerald points to Cheney
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2007, 07:25:36 PM »
Bill was not even charged with perjury buy the House Mismanagers because even those stup[id shits knew it was a bogus charge.

Pointing out your lies is like shooting fish in a barrel. One of the impeachment charges was perjury:

Quote
On August 17, 1998, William Jefferson Clinton swore to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth before a Federal grand jury of the United States. Contrary to that oath, William Jefferson Clinton willfully provided perjurious, false and misleading testimony to the grand jury concerning one or more of the following: (1) the nature and details of his relationship with a subordinate Government employee; (2) prior perjurious, false and misleading testimony he gave in a Federal civil rights action brought against him; (3) prior false and misleading statements he allowed his attorney to make to a Federal judge in that civil rights action; and (4) his corrupt efforts to influence the testimony of witnesses and to impede the discovery of evidence in that civil rights action.
H.RES.611.ENR
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: Fitzgerald points to Cheney
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2007, 07:44:03 PM »
Quote
Ok, let's try 1 more time, with an even simpler question, that even knute should be able to comprehend.  Billy boy was found in contempt of court for <fill in the blank>

Since you are so fucken stupid that you not only cant think, but obviously not able to read what is laid out before you or recognize any truth UI will fill in your stupid blank , repeat the source and direct you to look at the bootm of page 1 for details

<fill in the blank> contempt of court for his willful violation of discovery orders. Note that Judge Wright NEVER (emphasis mine mentioned the word perjury in her opinion.

Even a fill in the blank is too difficult for our resident clown to deal with.  No biggie, he helped make my point.  I best not remind knute that Fitzgerald NEVER mentioned that Plame was covert in his investigation conclusion, either. 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2007, 08:46:47 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

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Re: Fitzgerald points to Cheney
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2007, 08:22:42 PM »
Ok, let's try 1 more time, with an even simpler question, that even knute should be able to comprehend.  Billy boy was found in contempt of court for <fill in the blank>

Since you are so fucken stupid that you not only cant think, but obviously not able to read what is laid out before you or recognize any truth UI will fill in your stupid blank , repeat the source and direct you to look at the bootm of page 1 for details

<fill in the blank> contempt of court for his willful violation of discovery orders. Note that Judge Wright NEVER (emphasis mine mentioned the word perjury in her opinion.

Even a fill in the blank is too difficult for our resident clown to deal with.  No biggie, he helped make my point.  I best not remind knute that Fitzgerald NEVER mentioned that Plame was covert in his investigation conclusion, either. 
[/quote]

That  has nothing  to do with the the topic on  which I have just beaten your stupid ass to a pulp, but now changing the topic completely is proof that you know you have had it. I do want to thank you for giving me the total joy  of pummeling you on something on which you are so blatantly wrong. Plame's covertness has nothing to do with Libby's genuine perjury. Outing her was still worse than getting a blowjob and probly is treason. I believe Cheney is quilty of that and Libby's lies only delayed Cheney being exposed.

sirs

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Re: Fitzgerald points to Cheney
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2007, 08:47:34 PM »
 :D

And now From Knute's OWN "Lookie" posting: (Because he lied when testifying about the Monica Lewinsky affair, Mr. Clinton’s Arkansas law license was suspended for five years from the time he stepped down as President.)

Gotta love it
« Last Edit: June 01, 2007, 10:52:01 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Fitzgerald points to Cheney
« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2007, 01:39:15 AM »
I  was not betting a doughnut that you couldn't go to Google and find out what the accusation was , I was betting that you did not know at that point.

But since you have gone to the trouble of actually finding out what it is that you are angry about, retroactively ,can you tell me why this charge has any importance at all , or how it amounts to a total blockage of an investigation?

Quote
"They say Libby lied when he told investigators he learned about Plame from NBC's Tim Russert and passed it along as unconfirmed gossip."

That a single instance of attribution turned out to be wrong is not proof that anyone lied and provides a very poor excuse for Fitzgerald to claim tht he was stimied in investigtion of an underlying crime.

It is hard to understand how this "lie" would halt an investigation , especially considering the resources expended  , it is as if Captain Ahab went to sea in a fleet of modern whalers  and searching the seas for Moby Dick returned with a small mackerel that he should have thrown back.




Quote
The consequences of Libby's lies were far worse.

How so?

Valerie had to wear sunglasses and a scarf in her photo op with Vanity Fair?


You really are shallow & duped:




http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/13/04720/9340

All right I read it , now for you .
For all of your posturing and indignation
I would bet a doughnut that you do not really know what the "lie" was that Libbey is supposed to have told.

You really do make things too easy Plane:

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Libby 'Told a Dumb Lie,' Prosecutor Says in Closing Argument
By Carol D. Leonnig and Amy Goldstein
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, February 21, 2007; A04

Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff lied to investigators about his role in leaking a CIA officer's identity in order to keep his job and protect the White House from political embarrassment, prosecutors told jurors yesterday in the closing arguments of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby's perjury trial.

Pointing to a courtroom screen showing eight witnesses who contradicted Libby, Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald said it was no coincidence that Bush administration colleagues and reporters recalled Libby as intensely focused on undercover CIA officer Valerie Plame early in the summer of 2003, as her husband was publicly challenging the White House's rationale for going to war in Iraq.

"This is something important, something he was focused on, something he was angry about," Fitzgerald said. "He had a motive to lie, and . . . he stole the truth from the justice system."

Libby "told a dumb lie and got caught" when leak investigators refused to go away, Fitzgerald said. He added that Libby's lies had "left a cloud over the vice president" because Cheney's role in the leak remained unclear.

But two defense attorneys argued that Libby was a harried and hardworking public servant who was guilty only of forgetfulness about a relatively insignificant matter given his pressure-cooker job.

In impassioned, and at times disjointed arguments, the defense lawyers drew attention to numerous witnesses who had faulty or questionable memories and conflicting recollections. They said it was unfair to assume that the witnesses had made honest mistakes but that Libby's untruths were deliberate.

"If you're not sure, that's not guilty," said attorney Theodore Wells Jr. "It's impossible to say with any degree of certainty that Mr. Libby is engaged in intentional lying."

Libby is charged with five felonies: two counts of lying to FBI agents, two counts of perjuring himself in grand jury testimony and one count of obstructing the federal probe into whether Bush administration officials illegally leaked classified information by disclosing Plame's identity to reporters.

They say Libby lied when he told investigators he learned about Plame from NBC's Tim Russert and passed it along as unconfirmed gossip.

Libby has pleaded not guilty, contending he inaccurately remembered conversations that he recounted to FBI agents and a grand jury. No one is charged with the leak itself.

The 12-member jury will receive instructions from presiding U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton early today about how to weigh the high-profile case against Libby. Jurors are expected to begin deliberations before noon.

Plame is married to former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, whose accusations in 2003 that the Bush administration twisted intelligence to justify the war with Iraq set in motion events leading to the leak of his wife's name in a syndicated column by Robert Novak. Wilson's claims infuriated Cheney and others in the White House, and Cheney deputized Libby to contact reporters and rebut Wilson's claims.

Wilson turned out to be a potent critic. He had been sent to Niger by the CIA a year earlier to check on reports that Iraq had tried to obtain material for nuclear weapons there, and concluded that the reports were false. Within days of Wilson going public about his findings in July 2003 , the White House acknowledged that President Bush's State of the Union address should not have included the assertion that Iraq was trying to purchase uranium.

Fitzgerald told the jury yesterday that Libby was engaged in a campaign to make reporters skeptical of Wilson. His wife's post at the CIA and her role in suggesting him for the mission became a useful tool to insinuate that he wasn't qualified for the mission to Niger. The prosecutor disputed the defense's argument that Libby did not remember Plame because she was so trivial to him.

"To [Libby] she wasn't Valerie Wilson, she's wasn't a person," the prosecutor said, sipping from a plastic cup of water as he walked back and forth in front of the jury box. "She was an argument, a fact to use against Joe Wilson."

Prosecutor Peter Zeidenberg, summing up the government's evidence, said Libby "absolutely fabricates two conversations that never happened" -- with Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper and NBC's Russert. He said Libby's claim that he didn't remember the conversations was "just not credible" because Cheney considered the matter very important and it commanded much of Libby's time.

Zeidenberg also said Libby had several motives to lie. The president had said he would fire whoever had disclosed Plame's identity, a criminal investigation had begun, and, at Libby's urging, Cheney had personally vouched for Libby, getting the White House to say publicly that Libby was not the leaker.

In the defense's closing argument, Wells countered that the case was simply "he said, she said." He contended that it was "madness" to try to convict Libby of a crime based on his foggy memory about fragments of conversations that were the subject of FBI questions three and four months after they took place.

"It's a case about different recollections between Mr. Libby and some reporters," Wells said. "This is an important trial, and I represent an innocent man."

Wells said that Libby honestly believed he learned about Plame for the first time from Russert in a July 10, 2003, conversation -- a month after he was actually told about her by the vice president, Libby later acknowledged. Wells emphasized to the jury that Russert first told the FBI that he couldn't completely rule out discussing the subject with Libby because he talks to so many people.

"That's reasonable doubt right there," Wells said of an FBI agent's notes. "If you say, 'I believe Mr. Russert beyond a reasonable doubt,' my client's life would be destroyed. His reputation would be destroyed."

Defense attorney William Jeffress Jr. reminded the jury of the pointed questioning that Libby endured when Fitzgerald asked Libby several different ways about nearly every conversation he had in a two-month period in 2003.

"It's not easy being in a grand jury. And Mr. Libby was there for eight hours," Jeffress said. "If he got something wrong in eight hours of questioning, that wasn't an intentional lie. Which witness came in here that didn't get something wrong?"

Jeffress highlighted the conflict between testimony of former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer, who said he had not told Washington Post reporter Walter Pincus about Plame, and Pincus's account, in which Fleischer was his source for that information. Jeffress said there were a lot of possible explanations, including that Fleischer lied.

"Of course, possibilities don't cut it in a criminal case," Jeffress said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/20/AR2007022000122_pf.html

I bet if OJ had been in the Bush Administration, you would think him innocent as well. You would be on firmer ground too because OJ was acquitted by a jury of his peers. Your loathesome hero Libby was convicted.

BTW - I don't eat fattening doughnuts anymore than I swallow shit from the Bush Administration.

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Re: Fitzgerald points to Cheney
« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2007, 02:56:10 PM »
>>But since you have gone to the trouble of actually finding out what it is that you are angry about, retroactively ,can you tell me why this charge has any importance at all , or how it amounts to a total blockage of an investigation?

Quote
"They say Libby lied when he told investigators he learned about Plame from NBC's Tim Russert and passed it along as unconfirmed gossip."

That a single instance of attribution turned out to be wrong is not proof that anyone lied and provides a very poor excuse for Fitzgerald to claim tht he was stimied in investigtion of an underlying crime.

It is hard to understand how this "lie" would halt an investigation , especially considering the resources expended  , it is as if Captain Ahab went to sea in a fleet of modern whalers  and searching the seas for Moby Dick returned with a small mackerel that he should have thrown back.<<

WHAT is this perverse joy you seem to get from defending loathesome liars that betray their country? Libby lied to Fitzgerald on many occasions. The Russert thing was just the most stupid lie he told.
A small mackeral might lead to the killer fish that eats them.They call that chumming dontcha know. http://newenglandsharks.com/chumming.htm

(BTW- I do know that a whale is not a fish. I say that so Sirs wont have to wear out his fingers on trivia as he always does.)