Author Topic: Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!  (Read 3460 times)

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The_Professor

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Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!
« on: October 09, 2006, 10:37:04 AM »
Ok, so without the Religious Right, what does the Republican Party have? Only the country club set. Is that enough?

For the Faithful, a Trying Time
By Howard Fineman
Newsweek
Oct. 16, 2006 issue - In Florida, you drive North to reach the South. The "I-4 Corridor" is a Mason-Dixon Line in reverse. I crossed it the other day headed north out of bland, Disney-fied Orlando on a state road with four numerals—past the BBQ shack with palm trees in the dusty parking lot and the Brazilian "ground fighting" school, past orange groves and cow pastures, to the turnoff for the dog track. Across the street stood the Northland Church Distributed; "distributed" because it conducts services at myriad sites simultaneously via the Internet. It is the kind of fast-growing, interdenominational megachurch that is a key to Republican hopes of avoiding electoral disaster next month.

There may not be much Good News in the pews for the GOP. The tawdry parable of Mark Foley is only one reason. Maturing from rebels to political insiders, evangelicals are divided on tactics and agendas, and beginning to doubt whether it is possible to ennoble society, let alone save souls, through Christian political activism.

Foley put new cracks in the notion of the GOP as a vessel of family virtue. "It doesn't make you mad so much as it sickens you," said Northland's pastor, Joel C. Hunter. Among evangelicals, moral revulsion will yield electoral consequences: fewer and less eager volunteers, a lower turnout, especially if the hunkered-down House leadership is found to be covering up. "The ones who are kind of close to the margins anyhow are more likely just to say, 'I don't even want to go there'," he said. "And of course they're the ones who could make the difference."

So the polls show. A Pew Foundation survey found an 8-percentage-point drop in Republican preference among "frequent churchgoers."

Long before the Foley e-mails surfaced, the gears were grinding in the faith-based machine that Ronald Reagan inspired and Karl Rove perfected. It has been 30 years since evangelical, "Bible-believing" Christians flocked into politics. Figures such as James Dobson of Focus on the Family and Charles Colson of the Prison Fellowship have enormous clout within the GOP; Rove is a phone pal of both. But a younger crop of grass-roots activists views the elders of the cultural right as accommodationists who have failed to press a social agenda aggressively, and who now balk at calling for the ouster of Speaker Denny Hastert. "They need to wake up!" said Jamie Johnson, a religious broadcaster in Iowa. "Heads have to roll! The older generation is satisfied with a seat at the table. We want to build a whole new table."

Some evangelicals want to broaden the movement's agenda—in ways that don't necessarily help the GOP cause. They still care about abortion and traditional marriage, of course, but are equally concerned about immigration (they want strict limits), federal spending (they view it as wildly out of control) and the war in Iraq (about which they are increasingly ambivalent). "We don't want to deal with 'hot button' issues only," said Hunter, who recently took command of the Christian Coalition, which, though enfeebled, still claims a mailing list of 2.5 million.


A certain weariness has set in as evangelicals realize that politics is, by nature, beyond redemption. I met one such skeptic at the First Baptist Church of Orlando—a colossal Wal-Mart of spiritual endeavor near an exit ramp of I-4. "I'm not sure that you can send anyone to Washington who won't be corrupted there," said Gregg Chapman, a 38-year-old husband, father and manager at Disney. "You can't cure what's wrong with the world until you cure what is wrong in here," he said, pointing to his chest. That was his Good News, but not the Word the Republicans wanted to hear.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15178114/site/newsweek/


_JS

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Re: Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2006, 11:03:16 AM »
Quote
Ok, so without the Religious Right, what does the Republican Party have? Only the country club set. Is that enough?

Without the Evangelicals the Republicans have the moderates. The standard pro-business, professional conservative (in the old sense of the word) that cringes when evolution is debated on the Senate floor and doesn't spend any free time pondering dispensationalist myths about how the end times are upon us.

I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

The_Professor

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Re: Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2006, 11:30:19 AM »
I see we agree. And that set of votes simply isn't enough. Agree?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2006, 12:36:33 PM by The_Professor »

BT

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Re: Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2006, 11:40:46 AM »
Quote
I see we agree. And that set ofvotes simply sin't enough. Agree?

Disagree.

There is an old saying. "when one door closes, another opens"

The_Professor

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Re: Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2006, 12:37:02 PM »
Can you clarify please?

BT

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Re: Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2006, 01:10:33 PM »
I believe _JS laid it out pretty clearly.

As one interest group leaves or its influence wanes, others will replace them.

Independents who are independents because they disagree with evangelicals stance on evolution, might feel more welcome again.

Fiscal conservatives, who are uncomfortble with social conservatives, might feel more welcome.

Small government types who dislike evangelicals using the state to demand compliance with dogma, might feel more welcome if evangelical influence wanes.

And on and on.

Lanya

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Re: Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2006, 01:22:48 PM »
I see a few aren't all that disenchanted.

"Echoing Drudge and Savage, Dobson and Henninger claimed Foley scandal is "sort of a joke" and a "prank[ ]" by pages"

   " Summary: James Dobson and Daniel Henninger both echoed a claim previously made by Matt Drudge and Michael Savage that the sexually explicit communications that Rep. Mark Foley allegedly engaged in with former congressional pages were "sort of a joke" or a "prank[]" on the part of the former pages." ..................
http://mediamatters.org/items/200610060004
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Mucho

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Re: Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2006, 02:00:59 PM »
I believe _JS laid it out pretty clearly.

As one interest group leaves or its influence wanes, others will replace them.

Independents who are independents because they disagree with evangelicals stance on evolution, might feel more welcome again.

Fiscal conservatives, who are uncomfortble with social conservatives, might feel more welcome.

Small government types who dislike evangelicals using the state to demand compliance with dogma, might feel more welcome if evangelical influence wanes.

And on and on.

I bet none of those groups will feel comfortable in the party of pedophiles and pedophile enablers. The Grand Old Pedophiles (GOP, get it?)  :-*

kimba1

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Re: Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2006, 02:11:29 PM »
times sure have changed

in the 80`s pedophiles used to be funny
remember buck henry from saturday night live
he played one who used to babysit two girls
it was considered funny than
don`t forgot brook schields career in the 80`s
pretty scarey


BT

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Re: Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2006, 02:53:56 PM »
Quote
I bet none of those groups will feel comfortable in the party of pedophiles and pedophile enablers. The Grand Old Pedophiles (GOP, get it?) 

Then again you have the Aclu's association with NAMBLA and the Aclu's association with the dems. In Mikey's book that associates NAMBLA with the dems.

kimba1

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Re: Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2006, 03:03:47 PM »
Then again you have the Aclu's association with NAMBLA and the Aclu's association with the dems. In Mikey's book that associates NAMBLA with the dems.

what did ACLU  do for NAMBLA??


_JS

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Re: Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2006, 03:14:19 PM »
The problem for evangelicals is what else will they do? Where will they go?

They haven't won the battle over abortion. They haven't won the battle over adopting a national amendment to ban gay marriage. They've found some support in tighter restrictions on immigration, but what makes that an issue for a church? Why is that a morality issue?

So, at worst for the GOP, the evangelicals start staying home as they surely won't begin a movement within the Democratic Party. Then the Republicans have to start appealing to others as Bt and I have already indicated.

I don't really see the divorce between the Evangelicals and Republicans taking place just yet. Someday, I think it might. I think it is inevitable as one side plays one card too many and tries to make one play for power too much. It happens with all major factions within a political party eventually.

The party will survive because you might not think so, but there are Republicans who grimace any time that Rick Santorum speaks. The Democrats had the same thing happen when Bill Clinton went around the country and talked about the death of Big Government, passed NAFTA against union interests, and destroyed the welfare system. He basically destroyed an entire niche of support for Democratic candidates.

I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

The_Professor

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Re: Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2006, 03:15:36 PM »
"...it will be interesting, by the way, to see how Dr. Dobson, who declared of Bill Clinton that "no man has ever done more to debase the presidency," responds to the Foley scandal. Does the failure of Republican leaders to do anything about a sexual predator in their midst outrage him as much as a Democratic president's consensual affair? "

This from the article in question.

Well, I will lose respect for Jame Dobnson if he does not condemn Foley. I detested the lack of character shown by President Clinton in the Monica Lewinsky "affair", as I do this latest Foley "escapade". They both, in my opinion, demonstrate lack of proper judgement and serious character flaws. Party affiliation should not play a part here. Such actions are despicalbe, regardless of your Party affiliaiton.

BT

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Re: Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2006, 05:52:02 PM »
Quote
Kimba asks: what did ACLU  do for NAMBLA??

I believe they defended them concerning a web page.


kimba1

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Re: Evangelicals are Disenchanted: Oh oh!
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2006, 06:20:34 PM »
I believe they defended them concerning a web page.

I finally found the case.

this should be a 1st amendment topic to discuss here.
should we post potentially dangerous literature on the web.

1.how to attract young boys and get away with it.

or how about.

2. make fertilizer bombs

3.make a semi to full auto.

instruction manuel to commit a crime is one the ACLU need to reavuluate.